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November 2003 Nov. 1, 2003 ... Is there a site where I can find the "BYU Studies" ...? I assume it is a scholarly work put out by BYU? ... Thanks, [Sandra's Note: BYU Studies is an official LDS publication coming out of Brigham Young University. It is on the LDS CD-ROM program called GospeLink, available from LDS bookstores. See http://deseretbook.com/store/product?product_id=100010644 However, the CD-ROM doesn't have the BYU Studies past 1997. I don't think BYU Studies is online. It is in various libraries here in Utah.] Nov. 2, 2003 Subject: stumbling into your website ...Because I have a sorta-kinda sister who is Mormon, I have been reading LDS and other texts, Use net dribblings and websites. Yours is pretty darn good. One aspect of Mormonism which confused me was the (to me) strange flavors of pseudo-Biblical names used. One excellent webpage listed many of them along with possible source names.... regards, [Sandra's Note: See our page, Possible Sources for Book of Mormon Names. Another page with possible sources for the names can be found at: http://www.lds-mormon.com/names.shtml] Nov. 3, 2003 Subject: best book or booklet to give family members Hi Tanners & Co., I am wonder what is the best booklet you have to give to lds family members....that is not too lenghty but thorough enough to treat all the major issues of mormonism as well as share the biblical gospel with them. I love your stuff and think you do a professional as well as excellent job in fairly presenting the facts in an objective manner - I commend you to keep up the good work! Thanks, [Sandra's Note: A nice, short book is Gods Word: Final, Infallible and Forever. If the Mormon would be open to reading something more in depth I would suggest For Any Latter Day Saint or An Insider's View of Mormon Origins.] Nov. 3, 2003 Subject: in need of answers I have a friend that has asked me to pray that God would reveal the truth (book of Mormon is true) and that he would. I was wondering what do I say to this person and is there a Bible verse that can help me. I don't think it is Biblical to ask God to give me a feeling that something is true? Also my husband has a child from a previous marriage, and he does not want her to baptize their son in the Mormon Church. Do you have any advice on how he should talk to her about this? Is there anything legal he can to from keeping the Mormon Church from baptizing my stepson? Thanks [Sandra's Note: Prayer, in and of itself, is not sufficient to determine truth. Our own feelings and desires can influence what we perceive to be an answer. It must be coupled with scripture study. See our General FAQ: We have been asked to read the Book of Mormon and pray about it. Is this a good thing to do? Also see: How Do We Test a Prophet? However, even if one decided the Book of Mormon was true it would not necessarily follow that the rest of Joseph Smith's teachings were true. David Whitmer, one of the witnesses to the Book of Mormon wrote in his pamphlet, An Address To All Believers in Christ, that Smith was a fallen prophet after translating the plates. If your husband has joint custody he should be able to stop the baptism. He can contact his ex-wife's bishop and instruct him that he, the father, does not give permission for his son to be baptized. The husband can tell the ex-wife that since he does not endorse Mormonism he wants his son to wait until he is an adult and make his own decision about whether or not to join. Even Mormonism would grant that waiting on baptism would not harm the son since it would have been out of his control and it is something he can do when he is eighteen.] Nov. 5, 2003 Subject: Attaway! Guys, . . . I just wanted to say how much I appreciate your ministry. My wife and in-laws are Mormons, I on the other hand am a Baptist and a Christian. The Lord has really laid it on my heart to work in their lives as best I can. Your website has proven to be a wealth of information. In the process of witnessing to them I read their scriptures. I took a lot of notes on inconsistencies I picked up on but missed several that I found on your site today. Its been a tough go for the last four years but I think I'm finally making some headway with them. In truth its real good to have all this information, but I've come to find that them seeing how Christ has changed my life has done more for my progress with them than any scriptural confrontation. But I take help where I can find it. I know this must've been a tremendous amount of work for you guys and I just wanted to say Thank You For Your Ministry. Love In Christ, Nov. 5, 2003 Subject: Why? Why have you deceived me by sending me to satan, while I was looking for the lord? Why would I believe you when you send me to your site by deception? You had to deceive me, Jesus Christ does not deceive. [Sandra's Note: Sorry, I don't understand what you are upset about. In what way do you feel we deceived you? We do not have control over who links to us or how.] Nov. 5, 2003 Subject: Statistics Do you have any current information regarding how Utah, Mormon specifically, compare with the rest of the USA in........ Divorce I am attempting to witness to a Mormon that claims the church strengthens the fabric of the family, etc. Thanx. [Sandra's Note: Here are my latest listings. UTAH STATISTICS 1. RAPE. Utah does not have the highest rate of rape, but above the average. In 1993 The Salt Lake Tribune stated:
In 2003 The Salt Lake Tribune reported:
In 2003 the Deseret News reported:
2. SUICIDE. In 1996 The Salt Lake Tribune reported on Utah's high rate of teen suicide:
In 2001 the Provo Herald reported:
On November 7, 2003 The Salt Lake Tribune reported:
3. DIVORCE. In 1999 The Salt Lake Tribune reported on LDS divorce:
Here is a quote from a Mormon writer:
4. SPOUSE ABUSE. The Salt Lake Tribune, in 2001 printed an article on abuse:
5. DRUG & ALCOHOL ABUSE. In 2001 the Daily Herald ran a story on methamphetamine use in Utah County, which is 90%+ LDS. (Provo, Utah County, is the home of Brigham Young University.) The paper reported:
On July 16, 2003 the Deseret News reported:
6. POVERTY. In 2003 The Salt Lake Tribune reported:
7. BANKRUPTCIES. In 2003 the Deseret News reported on the financial problems of Utah:
Nov. 5, 2003 Subject: D&C 132 discrepancy Francis M. Gibbons provides an interesting description of Joseph's dictation of the revelation on marriage:
Joseph had, according to the same author, originally received the revelation in 1831 (Ibid., 285). If that is the case, and he had perfectly memorized it until dictating it in 1843, then the language of D&C 132 is strange. Emma is commanded to "receive all those that have been given unto mine servant Joseph." Why would a revelation received in 1831 refer to Joseph's polygamy in the past tense ("have been given")? Apparently, either Joseph had received several different revelations commanding polygamy since 1831, or he fabricated this one on the spot. [Sandra's Note: Good point. We have the text of the 1831 revelation (see Indian Polygamy Revelation) and it isn't like section 132. Historian B. Carmon Hardy observed:
Several concepts in section 132 would seem to argue against an 1831 composition date. Verses 4-7 speak of 'an everlasting covenant' which is for 'time and for all eternity' and is necessary to 'enter into my glory.' In 1831 Mormonism the only ritual regarded as necessary for entering God's presence was LDS baptism, not eternal (temple) marriage. Then in verse 19 he starts talking about those who shall 'be gods.' The concept of eternal progression to godhood came into Mormonism in Nauvoo and was not a part of 1831 Mormonism. The 1835 Doctrine and Covenants had a section on marriage (see Changing World, p.206 for text of no.101) which talked of weddings being done in a 'public meeting' and even allowed for marrying non-members. The ceremony was to conclude with 'keeping yourselves wholly for each other, and from all others, during your lives.' The section went on to denounce the practice of polygamy. When considering various historical issues, it can be seen that section 132 of the current Doctrine and Covenants could only have been written after the Mormons got to Nauvoo. The problem is that no matter when you date section 132, Joseph had evidently already taken additional wives. Where is the revelation that instructs him to do this? It can't be the 1831 revelation since that one was aimed at Indian wives, not whites. And Joseph did not marry any Indians that we know of.] Nov. 5, 2003 Subject: In the balance. So it comes down to this: Shall I believe your particular "twist" on the scriptures and LDS
doctrine? Hmmmm. Let's see... Ah! No brainer! By the way, do y'all appreciate the irony that anti-Christians and athiests use the exact same methods you employ to rip the Bible and thereby "prove" it false? Nah, you probably don't or you'd have to really stop and think .... and what's the chance of that? Nov. 6, 2003 Good Morning: Received my first order from you folks two days. Have not yet an opportunity to go through box and determine what was sent. Should an individual wish to start a library (yes we have a few books not) and would like to add to the collection, what books would you suggest and in what order? I would like a add a couple of books each month in a few months needless to say the collection would grow into an organized collection. I am especially interested in archeology, anthropology, geography, and the historical empirical approach to research. Yes, our family sent of letter to the Bishop, Stake President, and the Church Office in Salt Lake last week to resign from the LDS church. A letter has been received from the Bishop stating that the process in now underway. We are also requested to please write a second letter within thirty days to the Stake President to resend our first letter. Be so kind to add our name to your mailing list. Nov. 6, 2003 Subject: How can it be restored when it has always been here? Dear Jerald & Sandra, Many thanks for the October 2003 copy of your Salt Lake Messenger. How can the Mormon Church answer its own scripture in Moses 5:58-59 (our emphasis)?
How could there be a 'restoration' of the gospel as preached by Mormon missionaries if their own scripture says otherwise? With kind regards, Nov. 7, 2003 Sandra: Thanks very much for the articles. I truly appreciate your help. Every time I have contacted you guys I have gotten honest and prompt replies, supported by good material and you can't imagine how helpful that is and how refreshing it is compared to the stream on nonsense I get from my LDS friends when I ask them about the same topics. Many of them seem poorly informed about their church and in the dark about the possibility of alternative opinions on questions of doctrine. Thanks again. Nov. 7, 2003 Subject: Mormon history of kidnapping wives? Is there anything to the rumors of early Mormons kidnapping women for wives? I haven’t found anything on the internet. Thanks [Sandra's Note: Not that I am aware of. The Nauvoo Expositor [1844] tells of Joseph Smith or Brigham Young getting young female converts up to their church office, locking the door and telling them "God's will" about marrying one of them in polygamy. But this wasn't kidnapping. Their extra wives were taken from within the church membership.] Nov. 8, 2003 Subject: History of the Church I've noticed that there are many references to "History of the Church, Vol. whatever." Is there anywhere that I can buy all of these volumes? Thanks [Sandra's Note: The official LDS store, Deseret Bookstore, has a soft cover edition of History of the Church for $50. See: http://deseretbook.com/store/product?product_id=100015096 It is also on their CD-ROM called GospeLink 2001. It also contains the Journal of Discourses and many other titles. Since it is put out by the church a Mormon can't question its accuracy. http://deseretbook.com/store/product?product_id=100010644 ] Nov. 8, 2003 I just wanted to let you know that I pray for your ministry and love seeing what God is doing through you. I'm also studying Mormonism and hope that the Lord would bless it the way He's blessed yours. God Bless, Nov. 9, 2003 Subject: Your thoughts on D. Michael Quinn's accusation Thank you for the help in investigating the claims on the LDS church. What do you think of D. Michael Quinn's accusation that the Brigham Young Trust Company ran a Brothell? I got his book "The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power" but the event is only listed in the chronology in the back and there are no foot notes. If it is true, do you know of any documentation that would collaborate Quinn's accusation? Thanks again, [Sandra's Note: Sorry, haven't researched that. The only thing like that I am familiar with is when the Mormons set up a brothel to trap federal officers during the 1880's. See our book, Mormon Spies, Hughes and the C.I.A., pp.3-7.] Nov. 9, 2003 Subject: Waste of efforts Shame on you! Why don't you spend your efforts promoting a religion of your choice instead of wasting time picking ours apart? We are all brothers and sisters of a loving Heavenly Father and the Savior set an example for all of us to follow. Perhaps you will follow the example of our church leaders and refrain from critisizing your brothers and sisters of other faiths. Nov. 9, 2003 Hi Jerald & Sandra, I hope this finds you both well in the Lord. Two dear friends just left the LDS church after 12 years in it. I'm not certain why at this point as they are not open to speak about it. They came to church this morning and are reading their bibles. Can you advise me of a good book for them to read to help them at this point? Thank you, [Sandra's Note: If you aren't sure if they have fully put Mormonism behind them, suggest An Insiders View of Mormon Origins, or For Any Latter-day Saint: One Investigators Unanswered Questions. If they need help understanding how it differs from basic Christian doctrine, suggest Understanding Mormonism, Reasoning from the Scriptures with the Mormons, Mormon Claims Answered or Mormonism 101. If they need help understanding the Bible or basic Christianity, try:
Nov. 9, 2003 It has been several years now since I lived in Salt Lake City, but I have never forgotten what it was like to grow up as a Christian there. While there I learned what it was like to live as a stranger and outcast in the land. God used adversity to show me the one, true church, made without hands, with Jesus Christ as the head. He taught me what you clearly know, that salvation is not found in a church building, or in a denomination, or in a prophet, but in Jesus Christ alone. He is clearly using your ministry in that great work of building his church. Each time I read the Salt Lake City Messenger I am amazed at, and thankful for your hard work over the years, your perseverance in adversity, and your continued love for those who have been deceived. I thank God that he continues to strengthen and encourage you, and to use you to lead many to the God of the bible. Thank you for the opportunity to help support, in a small way, in the work he has so gifted you to perform. May God continue to bless you and your work. Sincerely, Nov. 11, 2003 Subject: free info on Mormonism My husband and I recently visited Salt Lake City, Utah on a business trip. While there, we visited the Mormon Temple and took a tour led by the missionaries. My husband and I are both Christian and knew that there was something not quite right about Mormonism, but neither of us had ever researched it. Upon leaving Temple Square, we met a man (I don't remember his name) that had some information about what the Mormon faith really believed in. We knew right away that God was protecting us and showing us His truth. The man gave us one tract about the fall of [the Book of] Abraham and a newsletter of information as well. Both of these were very insightful. Since returning home, I have looked at your website and learned even more that makes me feel sad for those that are deceived. (An image of one of our tour guides is imprinted in my head - I pray that she will find the real truth and truly know Jesus as her personal Lord and Savior.) Anyways, I saw that you had more information available and I was wondering if you could send it to us. Our prayers are with you as you continue this ministry! Nov. 11, 2003 Subject: Thank You Just like to let you know I appreciate what you do. Thank you. Nov. 11, 2003 Subject: Joseph F. Smith pamphlet Can you tell me where to find the complete text? Joseph F. Smith's pamphlet: ‘Reasons Why the People of Utah Should Be Republicans' Thank You [Sandra's Note: Sorry, don't have a copy. Try the Utah State Historical Society— http://history.utah.gov/library/library.html] Nov. 12, 2003 Subject: free messenger and free info from past issues I was given this web site by my daughter [who] is a born again believer and was raised in the Grace Brethren faith. My daughter married ............. ten years ago, they were married in our home church. We knew that in the past [he] had attended the Mormon church. What we didn't know was that [he] had a serious drinking problem and was determined to have his family raised in the Mormon church. There marriage was rocky and my daughter decided she would go with [him] to keep peace in there family. [She] was there for eight years and while she felt the people were very kind and friendly she felt the holy spirit pulling at her to leave. This was very hard on her because all the Mormon friends and the bishops were on her for what she decided to do. Now she goes to a fundamental church with her three children and [her husband] won't go with her. [He] doesn't go to the Mormon church either. But he blames [her] for separating there family from heaven? [He] made her agree that the children could go to church with her but she had to give them a choice and not demand that they had to go to church with her on Sundays. [She] needs information that she can share with [him] on the errors of the Mormon church. I personally know that it is a cult. Whenever you think the Bible wasn't inspired by God and add other sources such as the Book of Mormon and put there authority higher then Gods Work, you are being let by the devil. Thank you for all your help. [Sandra's Note: How sad. Even by LDS standards, if her husband is not living the church requirements he would be the one (according to them) that would have already kept their family from being together in the Celestial Kingdom. If she were the best Mormon and he was still inactive and drinking, etc. they could not be united in the LDS heaven—she could go to the Celestial Kingdom but not him. He probably wouldn't read a book by a former Mormon. Maybe she could get him to read An Insiders View of Mormon Origins—by a retired LDS Institute of Religion director. Or one by a non-LDS Christian is For Any Latter-day Saint: One Investigators Unanswered Questions. For a good side by side comparison of beliefs see Understanding Mormonism.] Nov. 12, 2003 I have read many of your documents on mormonism and i appreciate the work you people have done. I am a g.g. grandson of John D. Lee . I was born & raised in so. Nev. & Utah. Very little was ever spoken concerning the mountain meadows affair. In 1947 & 48 I lived in central Utah about 3 miles south of the Meadows. The only time it was ever mentioned was when James Alger with Walt Diseny came to film and interview an old man who was a security guard at the execution of Lee. My wife and I in 1973 left the church and had our names removed 1979. Thanks for great work that you people have in revealing the truth in the big lie of Mormonism. Nov. 13, 2003 Since September I have had an ongoing and open friendship with two missionaries that are stationed in my town. I am a Christian that believes in the One and only God found in the Bible. Of course the missionaries make the same claim .... salvation, Jesus, etc. I see the main barrier in communicating the LDS lie to be found in their belief of present day profits. Any suggestions on scripture that would refute this claim? Also, the claim of being spirits sent to earth. Anything else that you feel that might get them to see the falsehood they are following would be helpful. [Sandra's Note: Read Marv Cowan's book on our site—Mormon Claims Answered. Then read our online section on LDS Theology. These should give you a lot of ideas. Other good books would be Mormonism 101 or Reasoning from the Scriptures with the Mormons.] Nov. 13, 2003 It has been several years now since I lived in Salt Lake City, but I have never forgotten what it was like to grow up as a Christian there. While there I learned what it was like to live as a stranger and outcast in the land. God used adversity to show me the one, true church, made without hands, with Jesus Christ as the head. He taught me what you clearly know, that salvation is not found in a church building, or in a denomination, or in a prophet, but in Jesus Christ alone. He is clearly using your ministry in that great work of building his church. Each time I read the Salt Lake City Messenger I am amazed at, and thankful for your hard work over the years, your perseverence in adversity, and your continued love for those who have been deceived. I thank God that he continues to strengthen and encourage you, and to use you to lead many to the God of the bible. Thank you for the opportunity to help support, in a small way, in the work he has so gifted you to perform. May God continue to bless you and your work. Sincerely, Nov. 14, 2003 Subject: Question on early Mormon history Hello. My question is about the social climate at the time of Joseph Smith. Was it socially acceptable at the time for Joseph to marry a 14 year old and endorse marriages to 13 year olds? How did non-Mormons react to these child marriages if they were aware of them? My research indicates that the average age for a woman to marry in Smith's time (and specifically in Illinois) was 21. What I 'm interested in knowing is whether these young marriages would have been another red flag to outsiders in regards to Mormonism, or whether this would not have been an issue for people at that time. Thank-you. [Sandra's Note: I am sure the practice would have been a red flag to people. That is why Joseph Smith always publicly denied polygamy. This was a secret doctrine and practice. No one outside of his immediate circle of most trusted friends knew that he was taking additional wives and few would have known who they all were. John C. Bennett's expose, The History of the Saints, published in 1842, denounced Smith for his plural marriages but many people did not believe Bennett. Then in 1844 disaffected LDS Church leaders published the Nauvoo Expositor with another expose of Smith's secret doctrine of plural wives. Smith, as mayor of Nauvoo, ordered the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor press, claiming it was publishing libelous material. This act set in motion the events that led to Smith's arrest and murder in Carthage jail. For a good account of these events read Brodie's biography of Smith, No Man Knows My History or Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith, by Newell & Avery. Also, see the book Mormon Polygamy: A History by R. Van Wagoner.] Nov. 14, 2003 Hello, I would like to start receiving the SLC Messenger right away....I'm looking forward to my 1st issue. Thank you for all your work and research. I have requested that my name be stricken and have never felt so liberated by any other action in my life. Sincerely, Nov. 14, 2003 Subject: Reading material or tract's to give to Mormons Hello ... I have been a Christian of the non denominational faith for the past thirty year's. Recently I was visited by two L.D.S. missionarie's who I have been attempting to witness to concerning the real message of Jesus Christ of the bible. My question is if you would happen to know of any one who could send me something in my home mail box that I could use as a witnessing tool for sharing the true Jesus Christ of the bible to these Mormon Missionarie's. I dont want to have them read any hate material about Mormonism only the truth.... P.S. I also need some kind of reading material like tract's to warn people in my town that the L.D.S. is a Cult. In other word's I want to be a step ahead of these people. Thank you Very Much [Sandra's Note: You can read some great helps at our web site under LDS Theology. If you will send us your mailing address we can send you a free packet of papers. Also, we have a sample Tract Pack for $4 plus $2 shipping. Some of these would be suitable to give a missionary and some would be good to give to fellow Christians to warn them about Mormonism. A good, easy book to give a Mormon or to inform a Christian is God's Word: Final, Infallible and Forever. You can either print off the order form from our web site and send an order through the mail or send it through the web site.] Nov. 14, 2003 Dear Friends of Truth, I enjoyed reading the October 2003 issue of the SLCM publication from cover to cover. I especially appreciated your explaining the LDS doctrine of "blood atonement" for those readers that may not have been aware of it. I shared your publication with an ex-LDS person who has family in the LDS church. Together with the teaching on plural marriage, these two beliefs should be enough to cause anyone to run away from the LDS church and Mormonism as fast as possible... Sincerely, Nov. 16, 2003 Subject: Sons of Perdition I truly feel sorry for the two of you. Obviously Satan has taken over your heart and soul. It seems to me that any one really interested in preaching the Gospel would do it with out trying to destroy another Religon. Just think of all the good you could have done by preaching the teachings of the Savior instead of all the time you you have spent in trying to destroy some thing that is good and wholesome. I cannot think of any one who is more of a cadidate to be a son of perdition than both of you. It is one thing not to beleive a certain Religon, but another to try and destroy it. Certainly both of you should know that this work of the LDS Church will continue to roll on, despite your meager efforts to stop it. Shame on you !!!!! Nov. 16, 2003 Subject: hello...i need some advice i have alot of mormon friends who think they are christian and correct in their doctrine. they simply will not talk to me about theology...can you recommend a good book or something i can study so i can talk to them about jesus? it bothers me so much that they won't even investigate their own religion. thank you and god bless you in your studies. [Sandra's Note: Several good books would be—
Also, you could print out Joseph Smith's King Follet sermon on God. Then you could use it to ask a Mormon to explain Smith's view of God to you. Then you would have a chance to bring up how it contradicts the Bible and ask how do they reconcile that? See the section on our web page on LDS Theology.] Nov. 17, 2003 Subject: Thank You I want to thank you for your help in my quest to free my girlfriend from the LDS. Your resources are wonderful and quite extensive. The irony in all of this, is when I met her and starting dating, she poured on the LDS propoganda, and took me to meeting after meeting with missionaries and even her stake president. They all, after discussions, told me to pray about what i had heard. I did pray, and found this website!! I too, have read the BOM, and found alot of errors, such as repition of passages, and very redundant quotes, as if Smith had to fill in pages. One question though, did not Satan tell Adam and Eve if they had bit the apple, they would become gods too? Is that not what Mormons teach? That we can become like gods? This is the most intresting aspect I have come across. [Sandra's Note: You are right. Satan was the first to suggest that man could become like God. Genesis 3:1-5 contains the account of Satan's approach to Eve:
The Wycliffe Bible Commentary states:
See: Mormons Hope to Become Gods of Their Own Worlds and LDS Teaching on Lucifer.] Nov. 18, 2003 Subject: Joseph Smith a Methodist Is there any Mormon documentation that Joseph actually joined the Methodist Church ? I am witnessing to a Mormon who doesn't believe any outside sources, claims that they would have forged any documentation, etc. [Sandra's Note: I assume you have read the articles on our web site here, Joseph Smith: Methodist Church. Smith tried to join the Methodist Church but was not successful. One LDS historian who touched on this was Richard L. Bushman, Joseph Smith and the Beginnings of Mormonism, University of Illinois Press, 1984, p.53-54:
LDS historian Donna Hill also mentions these events in her book, Joseph Smith: The First Mormon, Signature Books, p.50.] Nov. 19, 2003 Hi, I am a born again Christian and my husband is a 4th generation Mormon. We have had ongoing discussions/arguments over Christianity vs Mormonism for 15 years now. Your site has been a huge help for me.... Many thanks, Nov. 21, 2003 I don't know who is the recipient of this email; If it is Sandra Tanner, "Many thanks"! About 13-14 years ago you were very helpful to my daughter in law _____ (who was raised Mormon) and my son .... The help that you gave, in the way of information and support, is so appreciated. My question now. I'm looking for documentation of the Mormon teaching that Jesus and Lucifer were brothers. I've heard this over and again and don't know where to find it in "Mormon material". I made that statement of the teaching and am being asked to prove it! Another question: Where, in Mormon materials, can I find reference to the teaching that Father God and "mother god" had spirit children (having had sexual intercourse to procreate)... I've repeated the statements on the Ankerberg tapes and have been asked for documentation. I sure hope someone there can help me out. Many thanks, again and again- [Sandra's Note: See the quotes from LDS sources on our web site under Online Resources. Read the sections on Terminology, God, Jesus, Lucifer and how Mormons hope to become gods. Also read Joseph Smith's King Follet sermon. We sell a set of photocopies on Godhead quotes. See Godhead and Virgin Birth Photos.] Nov. 21, 2003 Subject: free info package I would appreciate it if you would send me as much information as possible on the mormon church and why it is necessary for people to not get involved with the church. I am a youth worker ... here in ... Arizona. This is a very dominant mormon community and there is severe pressure placed on a lot of teenagers to join their church. ... I would like to educate the kids as well as the staff about this subject as much as I possibly can. ... Nov. 22, 2003 ye prosecutors, ye false swearers.... try to keep the Sabbath day holy, by taking off your second face. And get back to your daily life and enjoy till the second coming... Nov. 23, 2003 Subject: I wonder? Hi there, Just a short note I suppose to query your interest in Hitler and Braun. What does it matter if their names have indeed been put through for temple work . Surely you do not believe that you can judge these people even if they have committed some heinous crimes. I believe The Lord alone will judge. And why do people continually nit pick or complain about the work that Mormons do. Anything they do is always wrong in others eyes who do not understand. Have you ever wondered why so much negativity is written about the Mormon religion compared to the other religions of the world I wonder. [Web-editor: See The Mormon Church Attempts to Conceal Temple Records for Adolf Hitler.] Nov. 23, 2003 just a quick note to tell you that I found your website after watching a hilarious episode of the show "South Park" tonight, which lampooned Joseph Smith and the Mormon church. I was raised a Mormon, but left the church (though not officially) a long time ago (when I was 17). I didn't know about the "hat" being used to "translate" the book of Mormon (hilariously depicted in the South Park episode). Anyway, I am a scholar and have done a fair amount of study of World Religion. I think your work on the history of the church is first rate (good research). But your work on theology could use more objectivity (whatever your personal beliefs are). For example, you seem to enjoy pointing out the difference between Mormon theology and Biblical theology, with an obvious slant to the Biblical. I think this does something of a disservice to your research, however. For example, the Mormon belief that humans can be gods (and that even God was once a person who became a god of a world) is Hindu in Origin, as are the doctrines of predestination (also in the Mormon faith). I might be more useful (as an objective, scholarly argument) to point to these origins of Mormonism then to simply (and somewhat more ideologically) point to their divergence from mainstream Christianity. Despite my hatred for the church (perhaps a strong word, after all these years) I find it strangely fascinating (socially and politically): truly the postmodern religion. The irony of my own relation to the church is this: I am convinced that its emphasis on learning mormon history (particularly for children) actually helped prepare me to be scholar: thereby, giving me the tools to reject the church as a whole. This is always something that has amazed me ( I mean, I was 17 in the 1970's and I was able to figure it out): how so many professional, rational, intelligent people could actually believe in this stuff. Of course, the answer is really an unquestioned belief in authority. When I told my dad I was no longer a Mormon (this was when I was 18) he physically assaulted me and threw me out of his house. So much for the "family." Nov. 24, 2003 Subject: Hello again... I don't know if you all are South Park fans but I was wondering if any of your staff saw the recent South Park episode on Comedy Central. It was solely based on Mormonism and how "dumb" it is. The "funny" thing about the show is that it presented Mormonism in a very historically sound way. From the common answers that Mormons give to why they believe what they do to the way Joseph Smith translate the book of mormon. It was crazy to me that a show with absolutely no class or care for anything (it is a very funny show, that I probably shouldn't watch) would depict a very accurate portrayal of Mormonism. Im sure somebody saw it, anyway it may be worth seeing by you all... Happy Everything! My checks in the mail... God bless and pray for my courage to move to Utah and get a teaching job... if you can! Nov. 24, 2003 Dear Sandra & Jerald; ... Sadly to say, my middle sister was "drawn" into Mormonism in the mid-1970's. My husband, .... & I .... are Christians. I love my sister A LOT, & get along very well, (I've decided to leave 'religion' out of our friendship... You mention it, I've been through it, with my sister, ...... Thank you, Sandra & Jerald, for all this information ... In Christ, Nov. 24, 2003 Subject: Re: David A. McCament Hello, A lady that works at our [LDS] Temple here in Toronto gave me the name of your web site. She is either an idiot or just plain ignorant of what type of trash you have written on your web site. All a person has to do is to read closely the testimony of the fellow called "David A. McCament" and you will see that he is lying all the way through his so called testimony. Do not bother to reply or I will have your site blocked. Good Bye and made God have mercy on your soul, if you even have one. ... [Web-editor: A WAY WHICH SEEMETH RIGHT: My Experience in Mormonism by David A. McCament.] Nov. 24, 2003 Sandra, A woman in my church comes from a Mormon family. She was wondering if there were any Bible Studies specifically designed to help people move from Mormonism. Could you make any recommendations? Thanks. [Sandra's Note: Not aware of a Bible study specifically written for ex-Mormons. Maybe she could use one of these books. If she looked up all the scriptures, or it was used in a discussion group, much would be gained.
Also, my small booklet The Bible and Mormon Doctrine might help, or Point by Point. Also, the web site http://www.irr.org/mit/bibstudy.html offers a Bible study, but it isn't written specifically for LDS. The web site has a lot of material on LDS issues. The Bible study is free and online, she might want to look into that.] Nov. 25, 2003 I am truly greatful for your courageous ministry in the heart of Mormon country. Your material is helpful to us who are ex-mormons trying to reach out to our mormon relatives and friends and other peoples mormon contacts. It great to be on the outside of this church and be truly "born again." Your resources are extremely helpful in sharing this insightful information with others. I look forward to recieving this material and getting familiar with the material on your website. Thank you... Nov. 26, 2003 First let me thank you for the work you are doing, only in heaven will you know of the help you have been. My question is one that I have asked many people, including my wife's Mormon step-father, without an answer. Why do Mormons cross their arms when they pray? As symbolic as the whole system of belief is, I would think it means something. Thank you and may God continue to bless your work, [Sandra's Note: As far as I can tell, the folding of the arms for prayer is just a cultural thing, not in Mormon scriptures. But it is so ingrained in Mormon actions that they almost think it is mandated by God. Here is a quote from one of their prophets, Spencer W. Kimball:
Nov. 26, 2003 Subject: cam across fair site came across the LDS site [FAIR] today. there is no need to go to your site any longer everything you say is on there site I can not believe Mormons actually think they can become gods. i know i read it on your site but they actually put it on there site also. plus just about everything else you say about them Nov. 26, 2003 Subject: how do i give? to whom it may concern: ... i love what you guys are doing, and was curious as to how i could give to support your cause. any info u could send me would speed up the giving process. thank you for your time [Sandras' Note: You can send gifts through the mail to: Utah Lighthouse Ministry Or you can donate online here. Book sales only covers about half of the ministry's expenses so any gift is always appreciated.] Nov. 27, 2003 Subject: thank you for all of your work Hello, In 1998 I returned from my LDS mission to Russia/Ukraine. I had been skeptical of the veracity of church history and church doctrine from the age of 17, but accepted my "call to serve" anyway, hoping I'd "receive a testimony." Well, I never did, despite endless praying, fasting, and obeying. Upon my return home, I began a very intense study of church history and doctrines, and with the help of several organizations, including Utah Lighthouse Ministry, have successfully liberated my mind from the clutches of a "church" that refuses to follow the principle of honesty in regards to its own controversial past. Much to the dismay of my stake-president-father, whom I love dearly, and the rest of my Mormon family members, I am preparing to remove my name from the records of the LDS church. I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your well-documented research. Such a wealth of information has been very instrumental in my transition to a life free of mind-control. Regards, Nov. 28, 2003 Subject: Fw: Harper's Weekly Mormon Links (NY Times) Thought you would be interested in these articles from the New York Times. http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/harp/1128.html http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/harp/0506.html Nov. 28, 2003 Hello, I have read the stories that you have on this web site and believe me they are a pile of lies and half truths. The testimony of the fellow David that you are so proud of...all a man has to do is to read it and you can see that he never believed in the Church all of his life and is most likely a liar and a cheat. I would not be surprised if he was caught in bed with another woman and kicked out of the church because of it. As for your partial quote of Joseph smith on page 408 - 409 of volume six [History of the Church], well if you will read the whole thing he is saying that if he wanted to he could brag. He is not bragging, just stating a fact. After all he was accused of bragging and he is defending himself. Or do you deny him that right too? [Web-editor: Whole sermon located here.] What wicked people you are, you can not wait for some poor fool to give you a few thousand dollars so that you can swell up your bank account and spend the money on the worldly goods that Satan wants people to idolize. What I am trying to tell you is that it is clearly written in the Bible that people are not supposed to practise Priest crafts. For a dummy like you it means that you are not supposed to ask for money for doing any of the work of the Lord. When you accept money you have received your reward on earth and you will go straight to hell when the Lord finally does get His Hands on you. Any thought of a reward in Heaven is gone because you received the money instead of blessings. The only thing I regret is that I might not be there to see the look on your face when you are cast down to Hell!!! If the Mormon Church is wicked then tell me this: Why is it that the Mormon Church is the only church in the world that anyone ever bothered to persecute. In the Scriptures it tells me that the true Church will be persecuted and take a look in the mirror and you will see one of the persecutors. Don't you get it??? You are proving to me and to the rest of the world that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is True by the effort you put into destroying it!!!! We send people to your web site as proof that the Church is persecuted. Thank you for helping us. You are making the word of God true where it says the true Church will be persecuted. And you know what??? I love it! Your church is not persecuted and neither is the baptist or the Pentecostal church. In fact I can not think of any Church in North America that is persecuted except for my church. You complain about a pentagon in the window of the Temple? Oh Please!! You really have your nerve. I guess that there is nothing like an old fool. A young fool might change but an old one will never change. You are securing a place for your self in hell. Regards, [Sandra's Note: You present an interesting view about receiving money for doing the work of the Lord. Does this mean the LDS prophet and apostles are condemned since they receive money for their work? See Do Mormon Leaders Receive Financial Support? and our FAQ: How wealthy is the LDS Church?] Nov. 29, 2003 Subject: Thank you for a wonderful and informative site... I have looked into Mormonism for about a year and find it fascinating that so many people believe in such rubbish. I am not of any denomination, and keep an open mind about all religions. There are some good things about Mormonism, as there is in Buddhism, however some of their beliefs are just ridiculous. How no one can see this is beyond me. Another thing is how people can just believe what they are told without looking into what they are told. I first started looking into this religion when Missionaries came to my door and I went to many web sites about the Mormon religion (Pro-Mormon sites) and some things just did not make any sense. I had questions for their reasoning and beliefs but the funny thing is none of them leave a "contact email" to ask questions. Are they afraid of something? When there was a contact email and I tried to email them I got an email back saying that email was no longer valid. That didn't surprise me. For me; it was enough to know that the LDS church was not true for the simple fact that Joseph Smith was not a true prophet. Anyone who uses "magic" or a form of magic is not of God. Besides over half of his prophecies did not come true. It saddens me to know that the LDS regards the Bible as something false, and accuses God of lying to us and changing His mind all the time. If I wanted to be lead into damnation I could do that on my own and do not need false prophets, false doctrines or a false church to guide me there. Thank you so much for having this site. It has taught me a lot and gave me a chance to thoroughly re-search the Mormon religion. If it wasn't for the Missionaries and Pro-Mormon web sites I would have never come to know that the LDS church was nothing more than a organized business and a false church. You're not only informing people for what the LDS church really is, but you're helping them to save their souls. Kudos to you Nov. 30, 2003 Just finished the fascinating Issue 90. Although I understand the point you were making about Joseph Smith being tempted, and that you didn't want to sidetrack from that point, it struck me that it would have been more balanced, especially for readers who don't know better, to have included a bit of his explanation that he was not guilty of "any great or malignant sins" etc. As for Foster's exploration of Joseph Smith's mental state, I recall from other readings that many notable personalities, including Jesus, have been posthumously diagnosed with one or another "mental illness." I see that Foster alluded to that. I question all such posthumous diagnoses. ... Nov. 30, 2003 Hi there I was a VERY active Mormon member during 12 years, I have served my full time mission, and as in many callings into the Mormon Church... I have discovered the true BEHIND of Mormonism... thanks to a personal researching in their documents... as well searching in internet where I have found your website and copy some of your documents... Thanks for the helping. ... the reason why I am sending you this Email is because of a Mormon friend, he was my companion in my Mission, and I wanted to share with him about what I have discovered... He denied ANYTHING about that... By the way, I have paste some of your pages, as well THE ADAM-GOD DOCTRINE, which Brigham claimed that Adam is OUR God ... My Mormon friend sent me some e-mails giving STUPID excuses, and that is why I am sending you this email, to know if you can give me a hand about his excuses : 1. He claims that Joseph Smith about Nephi in place of Moroni (the angel visitation) was an original mistake, NOT given by Joseph Smith, but ONE of the Mormon writers, and that is the reason why you can find 4 times the word Nephi in place of Moroni. What is your reply about? 2. About joined to the Methodist and after to the Masonry, my friend claimed that Joseph Smith was a very young and he THOUGHT that he need protection because the people and the mobs wanted to kill him... I have told him, that I can admit that he has joined to any Christian church, but how come to the EVIL Masonry? According to him, only STUPIDS think that Masonry is an evil sect, I gave him some Christian references (websites) about Masonry and their connection with Evil... he also gave me some about that Masonry has nothing to do with evil, as well that the PENTAGRAM IS NOT AN EVIL SYMBOL!!!! Can you believe it!!!! 3. About Brigham doctrine, he claimed that what Brigham tried to say is that WE HAVE TO DO WITH ADAM because he is our father, but the father of the human race, not our father in heaven... I have share some of your documents, but he denied that it is the original meaning, and that only Mormons understand the original meaning of Brigham preaching... 4. I have said that everything comes from Mormon documents published by the LDS Church, not from anti-Mormon propaganda... He said that Journal of Discourses is not prophecy or doctrine, but the discourse of A MAN (not as a prophet) given HIS OPINION (not as a prophet, but as a PERSONAL believe), I have share that he said THAT HE PREACHED THESE WORDS AS A SERMON, AND THAT ALL THE SERMONS ARE WORD OF GOD FOR THE MORMONS, he continued saying that Journal of discourses is not the word of God... How can you show him that Journal of Discourses is the "word of God" as a doctrine given to a "prophet" and not a personal speech of A MAN? Thanks alot God bless you [Sandra's Note: First, read our FAQ: What is the Journal of Discourses? Second, while the Journal of Discourses was not 'canonized', the LDS leaders quote it all the time when it suits their purpose. It only gets challenged when the statements are something they are embarrassed over. I just looked through Doctrines of the Gospel - Student Manual, copyright 1986 by the Corporation of the President of the Church, and it quotes the Journal of Discourses on p.7, 43, 47, 50. When does God speak through the prophet today? Conference talks? Then are all conference talks a source of 'official doctrine'? How are we to know which conference talk or church manual is 'official doctrine'? Can true prophets teach false doctrine? In the official LDS manual Gospel Principles, p.52 of the 1997 edition, we read:
If Brigham Young was teaching a 'false doctrine' about the nature of God in his sermons then he would be condemned by Deut. 13. His Adam-God doctrine couldn't be true in the 1850-1860's and false now. If one says we are to listen to the current prophet, then church members in Brigham Young's day, listening to the 'current' prophet, would have accepted the Adam-god doctrine as 'true.' So how are we to know whom to believe? By the way, Pres. Hinckley would trace his priesthood authority through the line of Pres. Brigham Young. A good book to give a Mormon is An Insider's View of Mormon Origins. It is written by Grant Palmer, a retired LDS educator, who lays out all the problems for Mormonism's truth claims. Sometimes a Mormon will read it when they won't read anything else, since it is written by someone who is still in the church.] Nov. 30, 2003 Subject: breaking away I was brought up in the church all my life, even though my parents were inactive, I went probably for the companionship. ... you sent me mail recently ... and it helps me see why I'm unhappy in the church but at 72, it's really difficult to make the change. I've had a lot of deaths and illnesses in my immediate family since 2000; my mother died, I had triple bypass heart surgery, had to put my dad in a nursing home because of senile dementia, and last year my husband died. When I listened to a discussion on the church satellite station today about the Book of Abraham and the Egyptian Book of the Dead, I wonder why I find it so difficult to get out of the church even though I don't believe what they teach. It's almost as though I doubt anything being the truth - do you think it's because we are so indoctrinated when we are young and there is a fear if we actually say we no longer believe it? I work in the Family History Center one morning a week even though I don't believe we have to identify all our ancestors when God already knows who they are. When I attend Sacrament Meeting I get the feeling that we look like robots going through the motion of the ceremony then having inexperienced speakers give talks on assigned topics that are not inspirational. ... Nov. 30, 2003 Subject: doctrine about black priesthood A friend told me that the Mormon church changed its doctrine on black priesthood after a lawsuit was filed against them for discrimination. The story goes that the church changed its policy because if they lost the case, they would lose their tax-free status. Is this true? If so, how can I get documentation that the lawsuit was actually filed against them? Thank you. [Sandra's Note: I am not aware of any such lawsuit. I believe the LDS Church was worried about the potential of a lawsuit, but none had been filed. Read chapter 10 of our book The Changing World of Mormonism, and our #39 Salt Lake City Messenger.] Nov. 30, 2003 Subject: Merry Christmas Just wanted to wish all of you a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, and to thank you for the millionth time for the light you shed. May your work be like the stone that was cut without hands, rolling forth til it fills the whole earth... Nov. 30, 2003 Subject: SPIRIT vs. emotion Hi, My wife and I were born into the Mormon religion. I am related to Brigham Young through Brigham Young Junior and to Isaac Haight. My wife is the great grand daughter of Joseph F. Smith related to Hyrum Smith. We left the church 8 years ago prior to ever finding your research. I left for emotional reasons not logical. After being freed from a cult, I now believe in a scientific approach that looks equally at all sides. Thank you for giving me more to look at. It's now hard to believe I was ever a Mormon and that anyone still believes in mormonism. But, I am surrounded by it every day. I was shown many errors in the doctrine while on my mission and after but I ignored it and just became more rigid into my "testimony" not letting a single doubt to enter. My belief was on an emotional level, not at all logical, which I see that many Mormon's are. Either that or just for social reasons. ... Thanks for all you do. |
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