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April 2001 April 1, 2001 Hi great site I am a ex mormon of 1 year and am now a christain. ...God bless... April 1, 2001 hi... I've enjoyed your website and learning more about the mormon church April 1, 2001 I find many of your points to be valid and factual but many to be unimportant and irrelavant to the authenticity of the vision Joseph Smith had. I love history and when it comes to religion it is a touchy matter. Many mix emotions with factual or stereotypical data. I find that in matters such as the ones addressed, the Holy Ghost can be our only true source of the truth. Anything short is absolute speculation. April 1, 2001 I applaud the LDS Church in its suit against the Tanners Ministry. While we might disagree... The Church does have the right to seek legal protection of its properties under the copyright law. The Tanners would be well served to obay laws of God and Man, they might find themselves on the right side of these laws - rather than thinking about themselves as they have in the past. IMHO April 2, 2001 Thank you for your help. I just received my order today of "Reasoning from the Scriptures with the Mormons" and "From God to Us". I wish I had the first book a couple of weeks ago because I have an acquaintance who is trying to convert me to mormonism. I must confess, although having been a Christian for almost 18 years of my life, the mormons are very convincing as being true. I am very thankful to God that I was raised in a Christian home and knew that mormonism was a cult. Thank you again for your exhaustive research. Without this knowledge I feel my testimony would crumble under fire. There are many other books I plan on buying, but my budget will permit me only the two for now. May God continue to bless your ministry. April 2, 2001 Dear "Brother and Sister" Tanner; ...I'm a 29 year old lawstudent at the University of .... I grew up in New Mexico. Like you, I was raised mormon as my family history extends back to the pioneers who first crossed the plains and settled in Utah. And like you, my deconversion process occurred as I learned more the history of our people and could not reconcile it with the modern teachings and structure of the "CHURCH". I should mention that this occurred while I was serving a mission in Independance, Missouri. ...As a missionary, as I traveled from ward to ward, I would often be invited over and fed by the local members. These visits provided me the unique opportunity to have access to an archive of ancient and out of print tomes of the early mormons the older men had scattered in their personal libraries. It is ironic that while I was not allowed to read secular novels, I could freely read about the School of the Prophets, the Teachings of Joseph Smith, the Autobiography of Parley P. Pratt, and Divergent Paths of the Restoration right under the noses of my mission president and visiting general authorities. Mormonism is an interesting dogma. As you know, the CHURCH tolerates no dissenters. To dissent to be ostracized completely. And so I left. I finished my mission honorably. Although I no longer believed, I knew that my family faced alienation if I failed. I never came across any of your books. I did not need nor did I care to have anything to do with what I had been taught were the anti-mormons. I knew of you as a byword, and nothing more. Tonight I found your website. I am now a practicing buddhist (a religion I actually converted to and practiced somewhat openly among my fellow apostate missionaries while I was serving my mission), and have no theological interest in christianity. I am not alone, many of my fellow missionaries either apostated or become "inactive" once we returned home. My family left the church at the same time as me, each for their own reasons. I should be honest, and tell you that my father was the first to quit. Leaving the church is like being dropped in the middle of china w/ out a map. You have no idea of where you are, and no idea of what anyone is saying, and no way to figure any of it out. Many of my ex mission friends turned to drinking and drugs. Dosteovsky said that if God is dead then there is no sin. Most of these friend's families remained active. I credit my stability in leaving the CHURCH to the apostacy of my entire immediate family. I remained convinced that missions deconvert as many missionaries as they create strong mormons. We became only the straw men in black suits and white shirts. We had no souls only indoctrination. The worst sin was to let our humanity crack this shell. We were tricked into accepting that there is no freedom. The M[issionary] T[raining] C[enter] is the equivalent of moonie indoctrination camp. In the mission field, despite the fact that we can never be alone, despite the constant raids and searches into our most private possessions by the zone leader, despite the denial of our basic Constitutional rights, the free thinkers would find each other. We had secret associations. It was actually pretty easy and out in the open. Once you got caught breaking a serious rule you were exiled to the the more rural and remote regions of the mission. (I went to a rock concert w/ my companion and we got home we found the AP's rifling through our belonging at 12 a.m.) Exile was great. I was out in western Nebraska and Kansas with all the other throw away elders (those who are too impudent, too stupid, not from the rich families of Utah, those who were gay or just unpopular). Most of my exile companions either couldn't or wouldn't take this time to educate themselves. We did nothing all day. We only did church work when forced to by the local church leaders or to occasionally assuage our decreasingly guilty souls. I took the time to ponder the church history I had read, to read greek and latin philosophy, and to investigate Taoist and Buddhist philosophy. Suddenly, the burning in the bosom left. Lost. Empty. I had been a vessel into which the church leaders had poured what they called the truth. Now I was hollow. About the time I had only a few months left, I began to actually teach Taoism and Buddhism to my those fellow exiles who I thought would be receptive. A few were. A disaster once nearly occurred when one of my exiles who happened to be the district leader of an exile district quoted from the Tao Te Ching during a zone conference. A perplexed look covered both the mission president's and the visiting 70's faces. But, I guess the thought of such a thing actually occurring was too remote for either of them and they never said a word about it. And so I was born again into the world I find myself. ...I found new truths, and new falsities. I would never go back to what I was. You are doing a good work. ...I believe the CHURCH to be an evil entity, as evil as any institution. It takes so much from its members and in return gives them only fear and paranoia of outside gentile world.... Sincerely, April 3, 2001 I just wanted to say "Thank You!". My oldest brother ...has been a Mormon for about 20yrs. My walk with the Lord is only about 2 years young. It's more than fair to say that I'm quite "green" for what is at hand in witnessing to my brother. Other members of my family have said that it's "..a lost cause", I will not give up. I will continue to learn, pray and "copy and paste" as needed in order to help my brother. I'm just starting, but your site is another GREAT resource in my walk with the Lord. Thank you soooo much....I will hopefully update you with a successful conversion! April 4, 2001 Dear friends After eight years I have realized the error I have been in and have left - last May - however I can't seem to get my name removed from the records - have you any advice please - I have twice asked politely - the problem being that the local Bishop is a distant relative of mine and doesn't want to do it. I feel the need to be completely free but without too much hassle. ...God bless you for all you do and for the light you shine for those seeking truth. [Web-editor: See How to Remove Your Name from the LDS Records] April 4, 2001 Subject: I am going to join the Mormon Church.... I like collecting coins and have a widows mite and many Roman Denars. I will join the Mormon church when someone can show me a coin made by the people described in the B of M. April 5, 2001 Subject: Thank you Dear Tanners: You sent materials and spoke personally with my parents, _____ and _____ ______, of Tampa, FL, probably about 13 years ago when I became LDS in college while dating an LDS boy. In the fall of 1990, as I was preparing to teach an LDS Sunday School lesson for 5th grade girls, the Lord God Almighty spoke to me in a voice as clear as day saying, "This is not true." I called almost immediately to let them know that I would not be there this Sunday or ever again. I never went back. A miracle! After leaving the Mormon church, I was so confused since I thought I had found truth and yet had been so wrong. I was angry at God. Church attendance was excruciating for me as I struggled to sift through my thoughts to determine which were Mormon and which were Biblical. I am blessed to report that today I am an active member of an Evangelical Christian church and am privileged to lead a women's Bible study there. My greatest desire is to serve the risen Savior and Most High God. I am not sure that I am ready even today to meet a face to face Mormon challenge. The thought sends fear down my spine. My greatest regret is that I was not strong enough to bring my then fiance and his family out of Mormonism when I left. My purpose in writing is to thank you for the part you played in helping my parents handle our situation with knowledge and the kind of love that made it easy for me to come back to true faith. Thank you for the work that you continue to do for these earnest yet misguided people. Sincerely, April 5, 2001 Dear ULM folks: Just a note about the speed with which the Mormon church's bureaucracy responded to my written instruction to have my name removed from their membership records. In Aug./98, I visited the Member and Statistical Records dept. at church headquarters, stating that I wanted my name removed. I was told to write a letter to that effect, which I did on the spot. I received a letter from that dept. nearly two years later (dated 28 July 2000), stating that "...in accordance with your request, you are no longer a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints." I don't know if lengthy delays are common or not - thought I'd let you know. ... All the best! April 5, 2001 I have a friend that says that they have proof that the book of mormon is accurate. He said the reason that the aztecs reacted to the conquistadors as gods is because christ had established his church there and he was henceforth refered to as "the white god". That is why they reacted to the spanish the way that they did. Do you have an alternative explanation for this? I would appreciate an answer as soon as possible. Thank you. [Sandra's Note: First, the deity named Quetzalcoatl was just one of many pagan Indian deities. In The Maya, by Michael Coe, we read:
Second, the Indians thought the Spaniards were gods because there was a legend of a past ruler (around 900 AD) named Quetzalcoatl (named after the deity) who sailed away promising to return. Quoting from The Maya:
The National Geographic Mag. for Dec. 1980, ran several articles on the Aztecs. On page 762 it is stated:
But that hardly equates with Jesus. Also, they had never seen such a ship before, firing arms, horses, etc . So they thought the gods had arrived. For more on this, see the article in Sunstone Mag., 1986, "The Christianization of Quetzalcoatl" by Brent Gardner, who at the time of the article was working on his Ph.D. in anthropology. Regarding the claim that Quetzalcoatl was white, Mr. Gardner comments:
We sell a pamphlet called Quetzalcoatl—Jesus in the Americas? by E. Johnson.] April 6, 2001 Sandra: Has a Mormon prophet made an official "prophecy from God" since the conferring of the priesthood to blacks in 1978? Or does the church basically say that any spiritual "advice" coming from the prophet today counts as "prophecy" or "revelation?" When reading back over this topic, the latest one rising to the top is the blacks-priesthood revelation. Is that only because it was controversial and the mainstream media picked it up? Thanks again for your ministry! I look forward someday to meeting you and Jerald. [Sandra's Note: No, there has not been any official revelations since 1978. The LDS just say that the leaders lead the church through revelation. But none have been presented to the church.] April 6, 2001 Thank you for having me on your mailing list. All of the staff has my prayer support. Today is the anniversary of 'The Church.' [April 6] I have a 30 yr old son who intentionally chose this date for their wedding. Needless to say, he doesn't speak to me anymore which is a shame, because 4 grandchildren are involved. I am not only an apostate but also a son of perdition. He can't jeopardize his temple recommend by 'sympathizing' with me. April 6, 2001 Subject: Mormonism needs a safety label... I was recently talking to a young man who was being pressured to go on a LDS mission. Members of his ward and his family were forcing him to go using every pressure known. It seems that everyone involved in a decision to go on a mission by a young Mormon gets some of the glory. The people that pay for the mission get glory, the people that taught the boy get glory, and anyone that presented an argument to go gets glory. It is a kind of vicarious religious work to be involved in convincing a young Mormon boy to go on a mission. It is obvious to me that a Mormon mission is more a right of passage than anything else. How do you ever leave a cult after you have given them some of the best years of your life? How do you leave a cult if you have to face the facts that you brought poor souls into it who are now lost?? The Mormon church is awesome. You get into it so deep that you would be scared to ever look at the truth concerning it. Nobody can understand how calculating this organization is. The people at the top reap all the rewards. The good old boys sit at the top and are worshiped as a lesser form of deity. The little followers would never question or go against the men at the top. They are beyond reproach. They sit in the high seats and try to snatch from Christ the glory that is rightly his. ...I recently attended a Missionary departure meeting at a local ward. The boy's mother got up and raved on about the revealed truths found in mormonism. 1. God is a man with a body. 2. WE can save our dead. ... America has laws against false claims and advertising in business, medicine, and a host of other areas pertaining to our comfort and safety. But when it comes to religion (BUYER BEWARE) Mormonism should come with a safety label "Use of this product has been shown to destroy the soul...." April 6, 2001 Subject: I quite enjoyed your site my husband is descended from John D. Lee. His mum was excommunicated for heresy before his birth so he didn't have an LDS upbringing at all. But he knew all about John D Lee. While we are of course horrified by the Mountain Meadows Massacre, and resignedly amused at the church's denial of its involvement, it has become a cultural icon in our house hold. Every year we celebrate Pioneer Day with a party and jello contest -- last year the prize went to two chums of ours who did a jello diorama of the mountain meadows massacre. I liked your write up of it. ...regards April 7, 2001 Quoting your own quote of Brig. Young. "until that curse be removed"....I submit that the curse has been removed and that Brigham forsaw the day it would be removed. [Sandra's Note: Thanks for the note. First, I don't believe the Bible teaches that Blacks were ever cursed, or that God denied them priesthood. The mark placed on Cain (which is not described as skin color) was to insure his safety, so people would not kill him. See Genesis 4:13-15. Second, Brigham Young taught that Blacks would someday get the priesthood, but this was not to happen until after the resurrection, when all the other descendants of Adam had had a chance to receive it. Speaking in 1854, Young stated:
In 1859 Brigham declared:
In 1863 Young preached:
In 1866 he declared:
Clearly the LDS Church gave the priesthood to Blacks before Young said it should happen.] April 7, 2001 Subject: a thought I have read a few of your articles and I think that I understand many of the points you try to make. I too have struggled with some of the inconstancies in our Mormon history and teachings. I cannot say that I have studied all religions in depth or that I have even made a comprehensive study of all Christian religions - I'm not sure that would be possible in one lifetime. Certainly I have done some reading, attended various churches, and held many conversations with various groups and individuals representing various religious an non religious beliefs. The conclusion that I have drawn is that all religious belief can be challenged, put down, or even successfully denied, based on historical evidence, conflicting doctrines, new findings in science or any of a number of other basis. On the other hand we must look to see if there is any significant good that comes from religion. I think that there is. Since joining the Mormon church my family has abandoned a history and tradition of alcoholism, violence and abuse. ...We see ourselves and others in a different, clearer light. As individuals and as a group we have improved and the world about us is a better place for it. The genealogy program of the church has caused us to look at our roots; to better understand where we come from, who we are/were, and to set goals for the future of our families. ...Absolute truth and understanding proves elusive but each day, each year, each generation improves. ...The church too is improving. Doctrines that were wrong or objectionable are changing. A new focus on Christ has been with the church for several years. There has been a movement towards acceptance of other religions and and effort to exist in harmony with them. To its credit the church is making an effort to improve its doctrines and its organization. The church is not perfect, far from it. Neither is its history, prophets, or teachings. Fortunately it is only Christ who is perfect, the rest of us have only to strive to be like him. ... _____ in Canada [Sandra's Note: Thanks for writing. I agree that the LDS Church has improved over the years. But how does a church which claims that God is revealing His will to the prophet each day, "improve its doctrines"? Mormonism claims to be 'the only true church' accepted by God, led by revelation, not just another church around the corner. With such claims one expects its history to match its claims. It does not. There is no evidence that the Book of Mormon is a historical record of actual people. There is not one artifact from this culture, not one sample of their writing (other than the one produced by Smith), no official map, no evidence for horses or chariots or wheat (as mentioned in the Book of Mormon). The various versions and contradictions in his supposed First Vision show that he was making the whole thing up. Smith's supposed translation of the Egyptian papyri into the text of the Book of Abraham has been proven false. His comments about supposed information on the fake Kinderhook plates show that he was a fraud. His changes in his supposed revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants shows that they were not from God. His failed prophecies show that he was not speaking for God. His lying about polygamy to his wife, the church and the nation shows that he was not a prophet. LDS say the Bible is only true as far as it is translated correctly. However, Smith's changes to the Bible in his revision are not based on a comparison with the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts, but on his own ideas. Smith took many elements from the Masons to make his temple ceremony. It has been changed repeatedly over the years and has no relationship to the temple ceremony of the Old Testament. There are no temple ceremonies or temple marriages amongst the Christians of the New Testament. It is not enough to say good Mormons are moral people. So are all people that profess a moral code. A good Baptist or Methodist is as moral as a good Mormon. Mormonism must stand or fall on the claims of Joseph Smith. If he was not what he claimed to be, then Mormonism is false and should be abandoned. Christianity is based on the Bible. We should be testing a prophets claims against it, not judging the Bible by what some man says today.] April 8, 2001 Subject: sad Your website makes me very sad. I am an inactive mormon and was married in the temple about two years ago. My family and many of my friends are loyal members. I am questioning. But I would never disrespect thier beliefs by printing what they consider to be sacred on a website where anyone is free to read and mock it. I have my personal bitter feelings and experinces concerning the mormon church, but i don't spit on the beliefs of my own family you should be ashamed of your selves. I feel shame for you. I know deep in your heart that you wish you hadn't done this. Now it's blown into something you cannot control. WHen you enter the temple you make a promise to never speak of what happens inside it's walls. Are you so bitter and feeled with hatred that you cannot respect the wishs of so many that are so dear and close to you? In a way i am glad you made this website. I can now see the foolish that oppose the lds religion, perhaps I will return, perhaps i won't. But i will pray for you. I fear the day when you must explain to your savior why you chose to disrespect his children, true religion or not mormons are your heavenly fathers children, and you are breaking thier hearts with you imature bashing. I will pray for you. p.s. listen to your heart, stop this, while you still can. April 9, 2001 Subject: Death by firing squad Could you tell me if there is any way that the Death by firing squad in Utah is in any way tied to Mormonism...and perhaps the Blood oath that they used to take in the temple? Is is tied to Mormon beliefs in any way? [Web-editor: Yes. See Changing World of Mormonism, p. 493] April 10, 2001 Subject: MSTAR I've enjoyed some of your articles. Agree with some of it; not all. But your resource and info is good to have. Thanks. You might have already heard this tidbit and I'm sure it won't surprise you, but I find it interesting in that it fits with the view that Mormon church leaders intentionally distort, filter, change their history to keep members from finding the real facts. My wife and I are members (I don't believe, but attend mainly because my wife does). Anyway, in the interest of keeping pornography from entering the house via the internet (we have teenagers), we started using Deseretonline as an internet provider. It's since changed to MSTAR (Millenial Star, I believe it's now run by the church, not sure). Well, the service filters objectionable material, which is fine when it comes to smut, but it has recently started filtering what Mormons would call anti-Mormon sites such as "The Page of Honest Intellectual Inquiry" and "Richard Packham's" web site. Not sure of which others, but I have a hunch your site will be soon. This is a tragedy for Mormons because many find it difficult enough to overcome the taboo of reading "anti-Mormon" literature. The internet provides an easy avenue to find alternative views on various denominations including Mormonism. People should be free to read those things and, indeed, a church that claims "the glory of God is intelligence" should encourage thorough study of various subjects including a full study of it's own church. Instead, it is now censoring useful information. Not that all of it is useful or correct or accurate, but who is the person to decide what is "true" or accurate? The church or the individual? Many Mormons are using MSTAR because of the filtering capability, so the church has effectively eliminated their ability to research "non-approved" ideas...unless they sneak a read at work or at the library. Censorship...hmmm...starting to sound like Nazism has struck again in Utah. Take care, April 12, 2001 OK you two, After wading through all the lies you call information on your web site, it's easy to see how you could be swayed from Christ's path to one of abomination and heresy. You were weak and easily fooled. I have studied all the information and have come to the conclusion that you judge so harshly the tales that are, without proof, attributed to these men of our church who are just that, men, that I fear you should come under the comdemnation of hell yourself if you were judged with the same rule book. These men are just as fallible as our Lord created them, no more or less. If I recorded your every statement, how would YOU measure up? I doubt it would be pretty. I would ask you to cease your lying and the embroidery of history for you own ends and truly live what you purport to believe as you call yourselves "Christians". I will pray you find the truth finally. April 13, 2001 Subject: Joseph's Translation of the Bible Dear Light House; Thank for your ministry. I am a student at ... Theological Seminary and I have an interest in Mormon apologetics. I have recently begun study of the Hebrew text of the Old Testament. I have also just received a copy of Gospel Link 2001 from Deseret Books which contains Joseph Smiths translation of the Bible. I thought it was interesting that although he claims he was directly inspired by god, he continued to make the mistake present in the King James Bible in translating the "tetragrammaton," the Hebrew name for God, as "Jehovah." In my classes it was explained to me that this was actually a combination of two words to avoid saying the name of God. The vowels for Adoni were combined with the consonants for Yahweh. When the Jews saw it in the text they knew to say the word Adoni instead of Yahweh. Apparently though, when the Hebrew text made it to Europe, it was mistakenly translated as Jehovah, which is what appears in the King James Version. Newer versions like the NIV use the word LORD in capital letters. It's interesting that even though Joseph was "divinely inspired" he made the same mistake as earlier translators in calling God by a name that was never intended to be used that way. I hope this will be helpful. For a source on the construction of the Hebrew you can check, A Practical Grammar for Classical Hebrew by J. Weingreen, Oxford Press: 1959, pp23. Thank you for all your work. In Christ, April 13, 2001 Subject: You are mistaken Have you ever watched a news story about something that you have first hand experience about and thought to yourself, "That isn't what happened at all."? Well, that is called "spin". When I found your website and read some of the material there, my first thought was, "Looks like someone has taken something true and put their "spin" on it." It saddens me when people have nothing better to do with their time than twist the truth into something unrecognizable. I didn't see the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints in your website. I saw a campaign of lies. It's a shame. April 14, 2001 Hello Sandra Thank-you for your ministry. I'm a former Seventh-day Adventist and I am testimony to how important it is for people to stand up for the True Gospel in order that people in the cults be presented with the light of God's word. I just finished reading The Changing World of Mormonism and enjoyed it. I live in Mesa Arizona which is heavily populated with Mormons. They are currently building at least one more chapel locally-of course one of the Temples is here. Recently I visited the Visitor's Center here and was able to make some acquaintances. I was able to witness to my tour guide and have had further conversations with some of the Visitor Center staff. Because of all the Deseret book stores and Mormon materials available here I've come across a wealth of info-of course they have books attacking you but the truth prevails especially when they avoid the gospel and do ad hominem attacks. This may seem like a really strange question and it's only out of curiosity I ask this-not as a prop for the gospel But I understand that you are a direct descendant of Brigham Young. If this is too personal, I understand but would you mind telling me your lineage from B Young to you. Which wife did you descend from. Again I really understand if this seems too personal I guess I find it interesting when someone can trace themselves to a historical figure. [Sandra's Note: You will find the information at this site. See Messenger 65: Our Ancestry Questioned. But in essence it is:
April 16, 2001 just thought I would inform you, that much Information you have furnished is 'reaching' my husband.... although, He has been in the dark {even as an inactive}, for many years, about that massive Mormon group of "leadership"....He has no family that isn't in it, see. This is a hard hurdle indeed...the deep past of long family lines in the Mormon practices...I find it very hard to be "married into it" and we were virtually ignored by all his relatives, starting after we married because I wasn't "----under {their} covenant----" stuff.!! Thanks, April 17, 2001 Subject: grateful ...I was in the mormon [church] for a very long time...I thank God all the time for Jerald and Sandra Tanner for your dedication and work you people do. I cannot describe the peace and hope in my heart because of your efforts. May God bless you both, April 18, 2001 Subject: Copyright Explained When you write copy you have the right to copyright the copy you write,
if the copy is right. Right? April 21, 2001 Subject: Holy Spirit. Dear Sir, I am reading your online book 'The Changing World of Mormonism', which I have found very interesting and informative. I have long used the argument of the lack of objective (i.e. archeological) evidence in my dealings with Mormon missionaries who have come to my door. But, having thought about it, there is another argument along the same lines, which I believe is far more challenging to Mormon beliefs; at least from a religious point of view, which is feel is worthy of mention. As you probably know, the LDS's make much of the appeal to the Holy Spirit and it's workings, in their claim to authenticity. In fact, they claim that the Holy Spirit Itself will validate everything they have to say. Now, the New Testament tells us that Jesus sent out his apostles to preach the word to all nations, with the express instructions that they were not to think about what they were going to say or do in times of need, because the Holy Spirit would speak through them and for them. As I understand it, John went to Greece, and from his activities was founded the Eastern Orthodox Church. There are claims that Timothy went to India, and that Thomas found his way to Egypt. Whether or not these claims are actually true (though it seems there is evidence of Christian communities in Egypt and India claiming their lineage back to these apostles) it doesn't really matter; because what is well known is that Peter, and later Paul, went to Rome. And what did the Holy Spirit, working through these last two, achieve? In the face of terrible persecutions, and apparently against all odds, the greatest pagan and militaristic empire in the world at the time was eventually converted to Christianity. And the Church of Rome (whatever it's failings) went on to become the greatest religious force in Western history. A magnificent achievement indeed from such humble beginnings. Now the Book of Mormon claims that the 'American' Jesus did exactly the same thing while he was there - chose Himself twelve apostles, and sent them out to preach the word. So what exactly did the Holy Spirit achieve in the New World? (Need we even ask?) Nothing - no churches, no communities, no beliefs, no Christian writings or artifacts - in fact, as you point out, there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that these apostles ever existed. They vanished completely and utterly without leaving any trace. The question one has to ask is; why would Christ send His Spirit (through His apostles) into the (new) world to no effect? In light of the evidence (or rather, lack of it) in pre-Columbian America, one is forced to conclude that the Holy Spirit failed. It achieved absolutely nothing. Which brings us to the million dollar question for all Mormons; does the Holy Spirit fail? Normally, at this point, I would leave my doorstep visitors to work out the implications for themselves. Certain Mormons would answer that the Golden Plates (and hence the Mormon Church) were the result. But the plates are claimed to be the work of one Moroni, not of any of the original (American) apostles. Which still leaves the vital question unanswered - why did the Spirit fail? ... Thanks again for an informative website. Best Wishes, April 23, 2001 ...I am a Baptist who has a great deal of LDS friends, and I am fascinated by your website. April 23, 2001 Subject: Thank You To Sandra Sandra, Thank you for all your hospitality, you made me feel very welcome and I am very excited about our move out there in September. I believe God is going to do some awesome things there and I feel privileged to be a part of it. You and others have labored so long in the fields of the oppressed and I know God wants to move there and He will definitely use His faithful. I had a great trip and I have gained so much knowledge from you and others who are presently on the front lines. I appreciate you taking the time to visit with me and answer my questions. When I move out there in September with my family I hope the Lord will allow me to return the favor to you. I have been reading you hand outs and the two books I purchased and I am astonished as well as appalled by Satan's strong hold on SLC. I will be praying for you, your husband Gerald and your ministry. Because He lives, April 24, 2001 ...I love your site. My husband was raised Mormon, I was raised Southern Baptist. I am hoping your literature will help me get him out of the LDS Church, or at least begin to question the teachings... Thanks so much! April 24, 2001 Subject: An Alter found in Arabia I have a simple question. I am an ex-Mormon who is bombarded by my Mormon in-laws. One of them have suggested that there is archeological evidence of the truth of the BOM. She stated that there was a news article stating that an alter was found in Yemen with the word Lehi inscribed in it dating from 700 BC. What is the story on that? [Sandra's Note: I think she is referring to a small notice in the LDS official mag. Ensign, Feb. 2001, p.79, that stated
So what have we learned? First, this is not the name of a place, it is an inscription on a monument. Who or what is it referring to? Mormon scholar S. Kent Brown related "A certain 'Biathar, son of Sawad, son of Nawan, the Nihmite' donated the altar to the temple. The altar has been part of a traveling exhibit of artifacts from ancient Yemen...." ("The Place That Was Called Nahom New Light from Ancient Yemen" by S. Kent Brown, Journal of Book of Mormon Studies, Vol. 8, , no.1, 1999, p.66-68) Mormon apologist Jeff Lindsay states "Thus, there is ancient evidence referring to the tribe of Nihm, a member of which was wealthy enough to donate an altar to a temple. The reference cited above shows a picture of the finely carved, beautiful altar. The reference to the tribe of Nihm doesn't prove the existence of a place by the same name." (www.jefflindsay.com) He goes on to suggest possible connections, but these are only speculation. What ties this altar to the Book of Mormon? Nothing, other than wishful thinking. They are only writing about possibilities, not proven identifications tied to the Book of Mormon people. Second, the altar didn't have "Lehi" on it, just the name 'Nhm' (Arabic wouldn't have had vowels, so the spelling depends on which vowels are added). There was an article in the Ensign for Aug. 1978, p.73, about such possible name associations. The article pointed out that in 1763 there was a map of Yemen showing a place called "Nehhm." This is an Arabic name. Is that the same as Hebrew "Nahom"? They don't know. The article says "Perhaps the next step would be to invite semiticists to give their opinions as to whether Nahom and Nehhm are probable phonetic equivalents." I have yet to see such a study. I understand that there were a number of sites in Arabia with similar consonants in the name. Third, the article refers to a group of LDS researchers, not independant scholars. Fourth, the LDS Church did not officially comment on this altar. They just put a small notice at the back of the Ensign. Sort of like saying, 'Here is a small sliver of hope, but we aren't committing ourselves to this interpretation.' Fifth, notice that they admit that this is the "FIRST ARCHAEOLOGICAL FIND THAT SUPPORTS A BOOK OF MORMON PLACE-NAME." If this is the best they have, they are in DEEP trouble.] April 25, 2001 Subject: thank you Thank you for your ministry! I praise our LORD for you and your work! I pray He will continue to bless you, your ministry and all those He touches through you! ...Huge Hugs and Love in His Precious Name! April 25, 2001 Many times in different books I have read the phrase "...the mormon religion will rise or fall on the story of Joseph Smith" those aren't the exact words, but it's the basic point. I can't remember who said it (I think it was Brigham Young, but I'm not positive). I was just wondering if you knew off hand. Thank you for your time. God Bless, [Sandra's Note: Here are three references. Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.1, p.188
Journal of Discourses, Vol. 9, p.312, Brigham Young:
Conference Report, October 1948, p.10, Oct. 1948 LDS Conference, George F. Richards, speaking about Smith's first vision:
April 26, 2001 Subject: leaving the mormon church Dear Sandra and Jerald, I have been on your mailing list for several years and have had the opportunity to purchase many of your books. I have never yet formally let you know how much the research you have done has helped me and my husband. Some Mormon Missionaries asked us to put into writing our objections to and of the Mormon religion and we were able to glean from your information and research as well as others information in order to put together a letter addressed to them as well as several family members. We drafted this letter in 1996 and had a friend of ours post it on the internet (exmormon.org). In the last few years we have received a few phone calls thanking us for the letter. Therefore, it is about time that I thank you for all your work that allowed us to put that letter together. Whenever a person takes the time to respond to our letter by making the phone call I always try to direct them to your web site. I recently listened to a lecture on tape given by Sandra [Sandra Tanner Tape No.4, 'Struggles of Leaving Mormonism']...that truly touched both me and my husband's heart. My husband and I have witnessed to family members on several occasions through the last 5 years and very extensively with my husbands mother. She is now 89 years old and will not even consider the possibility that the LDS church is false. It really helped us to hear you have some of the same heart aches for loved ones. It also helped us to hear how important it is to not let our anger about the deception and lies that the LDS church continues to adhere to upset us. It can be a very difficult thing to control the anger that we feel has caused so many of our family to be lost and headed for hell when they truly believe that they are serving the Lord. The letters that you shared during this lecture were very encouraging and I am grateful to God for handing this tape to us. It seemed to appear at a very important time in our life. ...Anyway, I just wanted to let you know how much we appreciate you. Your sister in Christ Jesus, April 27, 2001 Hello!! I cannot tell you what a blessing it is to find you!! I am an X-Mormon and an X-Jehovah Witness. I was saved on December 13th 1998!!...My pastor and I go out all the time door to door witnessing and we run into a TON of Mormons here in Alaska! April 27, 2001 Dear fellow soldiers. You have fired a lot of great shots and I can see that your are impacting peoples lives hundreds of miles away and even many thousands of miles away. Keep firing away for the Lord. Its a wonderful work that your doing for the Lord. I talked to a person that was in a high office in the Mormon church at a vienersnitzel hot dog stand and when I talked about you he knew of your ministry. He asked me what didn't line up with the bible in the book of Mormon and I told him that the book of mormon said Jesus was born in Jerusalem. Also I pointed out the many changes that took place in the book of mormon. You folks are helping many soul winners to reach the Mormons for Christ. My biggest thing I want to accomplish in my life is to rock the mormon empire with the truth. I am trying to become a expert on the matter and when I get over chemo I want to be filled so much with the spirit that the Word of God will flow through me with His mighty Power. God has used me at times to challenge areas for him. We've seen several thousand people in the last 3 years come to the Lord in our tents. We had 29 set ups last year. In Las Vegas we had 1850 people accept the Lord in one day. We were working with the convoy of Hope. Another 1800 people in one day accepted the Lord in Modesto California. Many other cities we've seen a great harvest of souls. This year we are setting up in San Jose. We've seen a great harvest from that City. Mario Marillo ministered some in our tent last year with Sonny Laura and we had MC Hammer and Kaffman from the raiders. Many were saved last year, maybe about 400 to 500 in about a week. Lord bless you and pray that the Lord will raise me up to reach many Mormons for Christ. Love from a friend that has a great admiration for what your doing for Christ. April 28, 2001 Dear Sandra Tanner In the Book of Mormon there is a strange verse from the second chapter of the Book of Ether. It says the following: "And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood." (v. 20) Is this a spurious verse because it implies that the Lord commands the brother of Jared to make a hole at the bottom of the barge and use it as an air hole (cf. v. 19)? Re this verse, one Mormon scholar said that we should not assume that the "bottom" hole is in the bottom of the barge. Instead, he believes that one of the holes ("bottom") was underneath the other ("top"). And that they were both above the water line. Is this a true interpretation of Ether 2:20? If not, why? [Sandra's Note: Mormons have come up with various interpretations for the two holes in the boat. But no one knows any more than what appears in the text. As far as the technology available for building ships, remember that this supposedly happened thousands of years before Christ. How were they able to build vessels strong enough to withstand the constant burying of the ship in the 'depths of the sea?' Read Ether 2:17--it was tight like unto a dish, peaked at the ends, length of a tree, sounds like a big football to me. If it was flat on top, how did the wind blow them to America? See also Ether 6:5-8. It says "the wind did never cease to blow towards the promised land...thus they were driven forth before the wind." The text never mentions sails, rudders, oars. How was it steered? What powered the boat? Seems like God should have told them to put sails on those vessels. Ether 2:24 says the vessel will be like a whale in the sea, up and down, 'for the mountain waves shall dash upon you. Nevertheless, I will bring you up again out of the depths of the sea.' How did they deal with the pressure and need for air while being submerged in the 'depths of the sea?' Also, how did eight vessels, with no sails, keep together for 344 days? See Ether 611. Why did it take so long?] April 29, 2001 Subject: Your time helping the 44 children I think its great for you to help the children of other worlds, my question to you, Does the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints also help in the area of world service? What is your mission of your ministry? Why do you spend money on fighting, if a religion is false do you also think it will fail? [Sandra's Note: Yes, the LDS Church also does humanitarian outreach. We are glad about anything they do for the poor of the world. But that is not what we are criticizing. It also claims to be the 'only true church' and sends out thousands of missionaries to get people from Christian churches to reject their old church and pastor and join the LDS Church. When they make such claims people of other faiths are going to investigate them. This is not hate or persecution. We only want to give both sides of the issues. As Christians we feel people need to be warned that Mormonism is not what it claims. Christ is the answer, not secret LDS temple rituals.] April 29, 2001 Subject: good job guys hey i have been a member of the LDS faith for as long as i can remember at one point in my life i fell away and started doing things that were wrong because i had no testimony of the church. but then i studied it and other religions to find out wich one really was true and i found out through study and prayer that of all the churches the LDS church has in no way ever put out any literature about other religions and other doctorines and that they have never bashed on any other church. So then i found out that almost everyother church has. Your "religion", because i know that you are not a church rather you are a religion, has put out more then any other religion. Thats when i thought why are all the other churches so intent on destroying the LDS faith? What are they scared of? Then i remembered that Satan said he would use all his forces to drag us down to hell. Using all the other churches against one church is a pretty strong force. So by reading your mail here you have strengthened my testimony that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the only true church of God. Thank you for you information that has helped me so much. And maybe if you went in looking at it from a spiritual view instead of with the view of Satan you might see the authenticity of many of the things wich you have discouraged. i respect you for having had enough faith in you relegion to make your web page. I also respect you for your faith and desire to serve God. I hope that he blesses you every day. I dont mean for this to be sarcastic or anything like that i just wanted you to know that your literature has helped somebody. April 29, 2001 The late Dr. Walter Martin once said that Joseph and Brigham both had no problem with stating that the Bible was the word of God. When then, did the teaching come about that "the Bible is correct only so far as it is translated correctly?" [Sandra's Note: First, they may have made some statements in support of the Bible but Mormonism has always taught that the Bible is incomplete and changed. The Book of Mormon (written by Smith) undermines the Bible (see 1 Nephi chapter 13) by claiming that the Bible has had 'the most plain and precious parts of the gospel of the Lamb' taken out 'by that abominable church.' See also 2 Nephi chapter 29. Second, Smith's eighth Article of Faith states:
Thus we see that Mormonism from its very beginning cast a shadow of doubt on the reliability of the Bible.] April 30, 2001 Dear Mr. and Mrs. Tanner, Thank you for your web site and all the helpful information. I first became aware of your ministry while studying at New Brunswick Bible Institute in Victoria, NB, Canada. Our theology teacher, ...made mention of you often in his various classes and provided us with some of your material. Currently, my family and I are serving in the country of Ukraine as missionaries with UFM International. We are involved in church planting, youth work, and leadership development in the capital city of Kiev. ...In recent weeks, we have also noticed an influx of Mormon missionaries .... They have begun to propagate their false teachings in printed form and seem to be making headway. Since this area is being flooded with LDS materials, we feel it necessary to try and thwart it as well as provide some kind of clear defense of the truth. Ukraine is a third world country, however, over 98% of the people are literate. We feel the best way to help stop the LDS activities in this target area would be to flood it with the truth of the Gospel and expose Mormonism. .... In Christ, _____ ______ Kiev, Ukraine April 30, 2001 I highly recommend the now out of print 'Changing World of Mormonism' for people currently practicing the Mormon faith. I realize that the only version of this book is online, but I feel it is the best book out there for Mormons who need "proof." As a Mormon born and raised in the LDS Church, I had begun question the Mormon church when I was 19 years old thanks to some friends who kept pestering me. I wasn't convinced by any of their arguments though, because the Church does such a good job of convincing it's members that ALL non-mormon Christianity is apostate, including portions of the Bible. So when anyone showed me in the Bible where the Mormon church was wrong, I just chalked it up to the mormon doctrine that the "bible is correct as far as it is translated correctly." And since any arguments beyond that were what I considered to be religious philosophy, I couldn't put stock in any of them. For me, I felt that the Church's origins would be key to helping me decide whether or not the Church was true. If someone could show me documented evidence that pointed to flaws in the Churches very foundation, these for me were arguments to be taken seriously. The Tanner's book was exactly what I needed. The Tanners pain-stakingly illustrate through this well documented tome, how the Mormon Church has tweaked it's beliefs over the years. Changes which to me prove that the founders of the Church were minimally misguided zealots, and possibly criminal power mongers (most likely the latter). They certainly could NOT be Heavenly inspired prophets. The Tanners also approached the subject in a way that I felt to be loving but stern. Unlike the 'GodMakers' video that the Church of Christ was using at the time, which I felt to be slanderous and patently untrue (I still do), they told the truth about Mormonism in a respectful way that I could listen to. They were not going to back off the truth, but they expressed a tender heart for Mormons which helped me to transition from Mormonism to a true knowledge of the Saving Grace of Jesus Christ!! I am today a practicing Christian - SAVED BY GRACE!! not by works or membership in one church or another, but by Jesus Christ. And I owe this in part to the Tanners. |
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