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March 2001 Mar. 1, 2001 Thanks for the No. 96 issue of the Salt Lake City Messenger. I read it from cover to cover. It is quite evident that the only purpose of the law suit was to harass the Tanners for printing the Truth. The truth can be dangerous as you have found by experience. Yet the scriptures exhorts us to seek the Truth and reverence it as something precious. After all, our Saviour claimed to be the TRUTH personified. Mar. 1, 2001 To whom it may concern, This website is a God-send! I live in a part of Arizona that has a large LDS population and I've always been stifled by their reasonings and claims. Your organization has helped me get an edge on their doctrine and more importantly, you shine the Light in the darkness. I especially appreciate the section of online books. Keep up the good work and may God pour out many blessings on all of you. Mar. 1, 2001 Good Evening, In browsing your website which contains the name of the Book of Mormon in its web address [www.bookofmormon.com], it became apparent immediately that you are not an active, believing member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I became curious as to why you would spend so much time trying to discredit such a wonderful book about Christ's ministry in the Americas. It is hard for me to understand how someone -- truly searching for the truth -- can read passages such as 3rd Nephi 17 without being moved to tears. You've spent a good deal of time trying to make something true seem false and contrived. Would you please try to read it with a sincere heart, searching for the truth, and then EARNESTLY pray to your Father in Heaven to find out whether or not it is true? I promise you that if you will HUMBLY pray, with a softened heart (with no negativity or guile in your heart), while you re-read the book, this time looking for TRUTH as you read -- you really will find the truthfulness therein. I just hope someone who is truly searching for the truth will not be swayed by your website when they innocently type in "bookofmormon.com," thinking they will find accurate information there. I hope they will let the spirit guide them instead. I write with no malice -- only with love. I personally know the book is true and have not one single doubt as to its validity. It is simple and it is beautiful. I hope you'll be able to see that someday. It will bring you great joy -- the kind you may never have before experienced. I bear testimony that the book is true, and that Joseph Smith was a prophet chosen by God to bring forth this work. With love, Mar. 1, 2001 I received the "Salt Lake City Messenger" today! What a delight to see that we have weathered the lawsuit. You are doing a valuable service in the midst of the deceived and the deceiving. I am glad that you are there. Your information is so factual, so straight-forward, that it is almost devoid of any emotion. The LDS who get upset are hiding from the truth, are running from the lie they continue to espouse. Keep up the good work. I pray for your safety and effectiveness. Mar. 1, 2001 I received issue #96 in the mail. I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints....I know the church is the true gospel and if it weren't, you would not need to persecute us. We have not persecuted you....I am sorry that you can not find a better way to make a living, instead of hurting innocent, god loving people....You are hurting our children and families with anti-mormon material....A ministry is supposed to teach love and god, not hate. Hate is what evil brings. I read the whole issue and all I heard was hate. Why would you want anyone to hate me when the bible says to love your neighbor. Mar. 1, 2001 Your mailings have been a GREAT help to me. We have some Mormon friends that came along when we (my husband) started praying the prayer of Jabez, 1 Chr. 4:10. They have been over for dinner several times & we are praying for the Truth to penetrate their souls. Unfortunately, some of your material we gave them didn’t get read. Found out they threw it away. I pray they will eventually read something to start them on the path to the REAL Jesus. Praise God for your ministry. Mar. 2, 2001 Thank you for your issue No. 96, Feb. 2001. I really enjoy the Messenger. ...I married a Mormon in 1950 and my friend told me not to leave my Episcopal Church...she gave me books by John Smith...and I sent to New York for Fawn Brodie's "No Man Knows My History." For eight years I had missionaries come to my house & [I] read ... everything I could to learn about Mormons and my husband didn’t know what they believed. So he started listening to me from their own books. Our missionary told my husband in 1958 to divorce me, I was from the wrong tribe...My husband quit the Mormon Church and was baptized in my church. Over the years I have read your books and most of them on your list & have passed them on. Keep up your good work. I don't know if you realize how many lives you have changed. God bless you. Mar. 2, 2001 Thank you for all that you are doing. I pastor here in Southern California and the Mormons have a great influence in our town. We are beginning, though, to see the Christian Churches wake up and take a true stand for the what the Bible teaches. I will pass your website along and encourage the other Pastors to look into it. Blessings upon your ministry. Pastor _____ Mar. 2, 2001 You are very subtle. Cunning. You apologize then straight out lie to me. It is the work of Satan to destroy. That is what you are trying to do. I am a Christian, I do believe in Christ, I also Know he died for me, I know it. The book of Mormon testifies boldly of Christ. I try to follow him with my all, and I persuade others to do so. Christ did come to America. He taught them his gospel. This record is the book of Mormon. You dont understand the scriptures. You lie about Smith, Hinckley and all Church of Jesus Christ prophets. Yes I said prophets. We have one now. He knows Christ. Does his work for him here. If you follow the teachings of Hinckley you are literally following Christ. Because his teachings came from Christ himself. It is a proven fact that there is missing scripture. It is also proven that the scriptures have been changed. This my friend is why we need a prophet. We have always had prophets to lead Christ’s followers. ... Mar. 2, 2001 Subject: Interesting Discussion with Mormon Missionaries Jerald and Sandra: ...In ...1998 [I] was called to pastor a church in Council Bluffs, IA. Yep, Winter Quarters is my home. ...On Sunday, I received a call from a young couple in our congregation who were contacted by the missionaries. They had agreed to let them come for a study and wanted me to come along. I agreed and that meeting was held last night. It was the most pleasant experience I've ever had with Mormon Elders. I did not reveal that I am a pastor, I was merely introduced as a friend of the family. I didn't want the evening to be confrontational in spirit. The discussion was lively, but not heated. It was great to be back in the fray. (Is it wrong to enjoy it?) I was reminded how much I love Mormon people and how desperately I want to see them Saved. Anyway, the evening began with me "bearing my testimony" that I am a Christian, that I KNOW the Bible is true in all it affirms, that The BoM, D&C and PoGP are false, that the LDS is Not a Christian Church and that all the Presidents from J.S. to GBH have been false. That kick started the discussion.. Most was pretty traditional. Archaeology, God being Spirit rather than an exalted man, etc. But when the subject of the Virgin Birth came up (I had documentation with me), the lead elder said he did not believe God had any sexual contact with Mary. I asked him categorically if he believed Mary was a Virgin when Jesus was born, He said, "Absolutely, anything else would be a sick, sick doctrine". I found that interesting and pointed out some LDS works he should examine. He agreed to. Time will tell. My question to you is, Have the LDS leaders backed off on that concept? I think its an important concession if they have. And I hope so, because its so blasphemous I turns my stomach. Any tips on dealing with that issue. Finally, when I assured them I had read ALL the LDS Scriptures from cover to cover and God had told me they were false. They simply said, "Then that's the end of the discussion. If God told you these things were false and you were sincere, there's nothing more we can do." I responded with something to the effect, "If God assured me it is false and He assured you it is true, which of us did He lie to. Neither of us believe God would lie, so we MUST examine the evidence." They just said, "A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign" and politely left. I did challenge them to read the Bible cover to cover, which they both admitted NOT to have done. Both even admitted not to have read much at all. I said that I had read all of their material and it was only intellectually honest for them to Read the Bible. They acknowledged the logic, said they would do it and left.... I'm praying for you. [Sandra's Note: As for the virgin birth/sex with Mary, LDS leaders are pretty careful how they word that these days, but it is still hinted at in their writings. They continually say that 'Jesus is the literal son of the Father.' But don't go into detail about what that means. But if God has a literal resurrected body and Jesus is his 'literal son' I don't see how you could come up with any thing else. In the Encyclopedia of Mormonism (sold at all LDS book stores), under "Birth of Jesus Christ" it says:
We sell a packet of photocopies from LDS sources. See Godhead and Virgin Birth photos.] Mar. 3, 2001 Subject: A little torn about what to believe. Hi, ...I can't actually believe I'm sending this email but I just need to know if all this documentation is Honest and True. I was baptized into the Mormon church in July of last year, and at the time I was in complete belief I was doing the right thing for my life. But... I had always had questions about the validity of the Mormon church and most recently I have the doubts once again. It is so hard to know what path to lead, on one hand I think Joseph Smith may not have been a prophet, and that he was a con. But then when I hear, see and sometimes feel that the church is true, I just get torn between the Real truth of the church and the way the church tries to put down finding or reading about any of the negative side. I guess I just want to have the facts for both the negative and positives facts, and not be afraid to learn more about what Joseph smith really was like. Its hard because If I believe the convincing facts on your website then I must come to the realization that Mormonism is false, but if I don't believe this website then I feel like I'm hiding from what may be the real truth. I guess I don't really need more info, I just can't decide on who is telling the truth anymore. But my faith has wavered a lot, and I don’t know what to feel about that now. Please tell me that all this web site is Fact and there is proof of these documents and statements. I sort of feel like everyone is just making up letters and documents to fulfill their own purpose. Thanks for listening. [Sandra's Note: Yes, the information on our site is factual and most of the books referenced on our site are in the libraries here in Utah. I realize that when one has friends/family that are in Mormonism there is an emotional tug of war as to whom to believe. But the references are all from actual books in libraries across the country. Anyone can see them. The Mormons put out a CD-ROM disk called GospeLinks. It has the History of the Church, Journal of Discourses, plus dozens of other old LDS books on it. Many of our references can be checked against this disk. Just keep in mind, truth will stand up to investigation. Part of following God is following truth. Jesus said he was the way the TRUTH and the life.] Mar. 3, 2001 What an enormous struggle you have been through to simply help other families through a difficult time. I am so sorry. After my mother passed away, I began a search for her family which led me to the LDS church. In my grief, sorrow, and vulnerability I came quite close to conversion. It has been a very difficult experience. A distant cousin to me, lied, and said my GG Grandfather was LDS. He was not. They sealed my grandparents who were divorced and my grandmother was still living and married to another man! I think you are courageous, Thank you for your page. Mar. 3, 2001 ...Thank you so much. I love your Web site and I think what you're doing is wonderful. God bless you! Mar. 3, 2001 Keep plugging away for the Lord. ...I want to visit your outreach someday and talk to you people in person. I Love very much what you people are doing in reaching the mormons for Christ. Lord bless you mightily. Your brother in Christ. Mar. 4, 2001 Subject: Changes to D&C Sandra: I am presently going thru your 3,913 changes in the BOM, and was wondering if you had something on the changes to the D&C? Thanks, [Sandra's Note: Our largest treatment on the D&C changes is in Case Against Mormonism, Vol. 1. A thorough study is in The Joseph Smith Revelations Text & Commentary by Marquardt.] Mar. 4, 2001 Dear Sirs: ...I have been married to a very faithful LDS woman for several years. While I am not LDS I have not experienced the discrimination you seem to have endured. Quite frankly, I'm wondering if you just have a personal grievance against the Mormon church or if you really believe there is something deeply wrong with the faith. Your website is very interesting and seemingly well researched. I harbor no ill will toward the Mormons, but would be interested in reading what you have to offer.... Thank you for your time. Mar. 5, 2001 Subject: your full it! I find it amazing that people take all this time to put together this complex website.. I am sorry to see that you have been so miss led...All I can do is pray for people like you....Hope you can get your facts straight someday! Good luck Mar. 5, 2001 Dear Tanners, Praise the Lord for your ministry!!! I've grown up in an area where every time you turn around a member of the LDS church is there. I was raised in a loving supportive Christian home so when my faith was challenged by some LDS friends my parents and friends from church completely supported my studying into what the Mormon church teaches. This was the most amazing best point in my life but also very saddening to see what my friends whom I've known and grown to love over a long period of time believed. Once I found scriptural evidence and historical evidence from your books and website and from some more books I was convinced that The Church of Jesus Christ and Latter-day Saints was a lie and the members of the church are very confused and lost. After my faith cementing time I was challenged to share my findings with my LDS friends; I was turned away with the response that "I believe these things as I've been taught and have prayed over to be true." After a couple of these experiences I nearly gave up hope on trying to get them to understand who the Jesus Christ of the bible is and the gospel of the bible. In a sense I was saying God I don't trust you and believe you have the power to change these peoples lives and I'm merely a tool. But recently when I realized my not trusting in God- He has opened up an opportunity to share some findings with a new college friend. He was raised Baptist but converted about 5 years ago. We've shared back and forth but I've printed up some things from your website and made some copies of pages from books that we are going to sit down and look over. So once again I thank you for answering the Lord's calling to proclaim the truth and would also like to ask for your prayer in my discussing with the young man. Thanks, Mar. 5, 2001 Subject: BofM, D&C Dear Sandra, Based on your research, what advice would you give to Mormons on the BofM and D&C? Discard them completely? Discern by the spirit what you think is true? There has to be some truth in them? Learning the problems with the BofM is very difficult when you've thought it is the "most correct book on earth." I do like Section 88 of the D&C but most of the rest I could dispose of. Thanks so much for you help and understanding. Mar. 5, 2001 Subject: Y'all rock!!! I want to thank you guys for your excellent ministry; I first heard of it while attending Life '98 and attended one of Sandra's seminars; very informative. ...Again, thanks for your ministry!!! Mar. 6, 2001 Dear Tanners: Thank you so much for the work that you have done in the field of uncovering the truth about mormons. My family has been trying to figure out the truth for four years now, and have been trying to leave the so called church for two. At every turn we have been met by nothing but lies to cover up the truth. I know that getting them to erase our names from the records will be hard, but my wife and I are going to dedicate our lives to the same work that you have chosen. Their so many people that ask us questions, and now we have the truth. We must try to reach the others that are still entangled in the web of lies. This has become my personal mission. Again I wish to thank you and offer our support in any way that we can. If you can help us, rid ourselves of this oppression we would greatly appreciate it. Your article on child abuse in the organization was the turning point, thank you, we would like to pass this information along to our friends so that they can arm themselves, there is a large missionary force here. Again thank you. Mar. 6, 2001 Subject: Thanks for you hard work Just wanted to thank the Tanners for their hard work. I am currently meeting with some LDS missionaries each Wednesday evening. Throughout the nite I try to gently yet firmly share the true gospel with them in hopes that a seed will be planted and the Holy Spirit will work in them to unveil their eyes. It hurts so much because they are typically so nice and so sincere yet I know that if they truly believe what they profess, they will not spend eternity with the true Christ. Sincerely, Mar. 6, 2001 Subject: nauvoo temple angel Dear Lighthouse, I am a sixth generation Mormon now happily a member of the Episcopal church. I still retain an interest in my Mormon history and heritage. I have followed the reconstruction of the Nauvoo Temple. I have a number of ancestors who lived in Nauvoo and worked on the original temple. I was surprised to note that apparently the LDS church has decided that the angel atop the temple will be of the "bowling trophy" free standing variety common to all the current temples. The original angel for the Nauvoo temple was designed by the architect William Weeks and was a prone, flying angel, which served as a weathervane. I would imagine the reason the Mormon leaders were uncomfortable with the original was because the figure is dressed in full temple clothes, including cap, with a square and compass above the pole on which he is mounted. The other curiosity is that there is usually an attempt to have the angel statue pointing east, even if the building itself does not. At Vernal, Hinckley demanded an additional tower be added just to accommodate the statue and point him in the right direction. The Nauvoo temple faced west. Here is another example of the Mormon church tweaking its history even with the reconstruction of a historical American building costing millions of dollars and one sure to get plenty of publicity. Weird. Thank you so much for your work and all that you. Best wishes, Mar. 6, 2001 I spent about 45 minutes browsing your site today. Why do you spend so much time, energy, and money tearing down someone's faith? If people find hope in Mormonism let them alone. What are your beliefs? They can all be proved as true? They don't require any faith? Prove to me that Christ even existed. You can't. Our knowledge of him comes from the accounts of men. Were they all perfect? Were they all honorable? Why should I trust the words of Paul, or Matthew? Did they ever make mistakes? Prophets and Apostles are men. They're human. Let them be. Is your attack profitable? I think it must be. I just don't understand why you'd spend your life slinging negative mud at others. What an absolute waste of time. Not a very charitable act. Mar. 6, 2001 Re [the Deseret News] article: Church formally requests use of full name - The emphasis is sought from both media, members. East Germany used to call itself The German Democratic Republic, but the country certainly had nothing to do with democracy. Likewise with the LDS Church and Christianity. Surprise: You have to walk the walk, and talk the talk. Multi-million dollar Public Relations campaigns are not going to convince the vast majority of Christians that the LDS church has anything to do with Christ. Because the TRUTH, beyond the spin, is that it does not! This latest effort is simply a pre-Olympic marketing campaign directed by a PR "Prophet". ...Good grief, when will the leaders of The LDS Church accept the real Jesus Christ?! Then they wouldn't need slick, high priced New York PR and Advertising agencies that attempt to "brand" and market Jesus Christ and the Mormon Church like a political candidate and his party.... Sincerely, Mar. 6, 2001 Received your Newsletter. You are zeroing in on the mormons and there feeling the heat. Your a good shot. Keep firing away for the Lord. Many souls will come to the Lord through your love for the Lord and your helping equip people like myself to sound the trumpet for the Lord. You have given me some insight in strategy that will help me reach them for the Lord.... Mar. 7, 2001 Subject: Another LDS Splinter Already Named "The Church of Jesus Christ" The Wrong Mormons? Perhaps the LDS Church is rethinking their PR emphasis on the shortened name "The Church of Jesus Christ" because there is already another Mormon church that already owns that name. There already is an existing church named The Church of Jesus Christ. They too believe in the Book of Mormon and the Prophet Joseph Smith. But they don't believe in Gordon B. Hinckley. It is a Mormon splinter group headquartered in Monongahela, PA. It was influenced by Sidney Rigdon and William Bickerton. They claim to have been organized in 1862 and incorporated in 1941. They also own the web site by the same name. See: www.thechurchofjesuschrist.com. It would be interesting to see if they have registered The Church of Jesus Christ as a service mark (SM) or trademark. Yours in Christ, Mar. 7, 2001 Ms. Tanner, ...I appreciate, more than you know, the web site and the work you are doing. I have never been able to embrace the "Golden Plates" and the other teachings of Joseph and Brigham as being much more than a money scam. There are too many discrepancies and your provisioning of information is invaluable. Thank you, again. Mar. 8, 2001 Subject: This is Terrible Your website is horrible. There is so much false information about the Mormon church. What are you anti-Mormon or something? You really need to talk to some Mormon Missionaries and get things cleared up, because you are obviously confussed out of your minds. Mar. 10, 2001 Dear Sandra, ...Thank you for all your info on this web site and your book Shadow or Reality. Because of all this reading I was able to counteract every statement the Branch President threw my way by telephone. I have been trying to have my name erased for two years. 6 months ago I got a letter saying I would be free in 30 days. I am still waiting. I recently used your sample letter to remove my name so I will see if that brings any results. With all the stuff I have written into the church they will either let me go or some one will start looking into the "stuff" and get his eyes opened. ... Sincerely Mar. 11, 2001 Dear Tanners. I was able to deal with a knowledgeable mormon that I may be able to help. I'm going to try and see if I can be a friend to him to talk about the mormon church. You have helped me alot in strategy. I want to win many mormons to Christ and you helped me to use better wisdom in doing that. Lord bless you and your mighty work. ps. He knew who you were and I defended you. Love from _____ ______ Mar. 13, 2001 Subject: Positive LDS atmosphere and environments of Satan? Just a few thoughts and questions: If you are truly Christian, the bulk of your website and work would be portraying Christian doctrines, etc. The bulk of your work contains criticisms and anger (carefully presented) against the LDS Church and others, such as Ed Decker. That seems out of harmony with Christianity in itself. Otherwise, I understand the points you've made about the LDS temple's "non-Christian" content. But how do you explain how millions of people attend it and say they find great satisfaction, peace, happiness, spiritual feelings, etc. I have seen and been in other churches and places, where I immediately recognize the dark and gloomy atmosphere of things that are not of God, yet the LDS Church and temples are full of beauty and light, unlike the sombre and strange light found in many other Churches and rituals (like Masons, like Catholic services). But my experience in the LDS Church is very uplifting, positive feelings throughout almost all the meetings, on a regular basis, be it in RS, sacrament or conferences. So what gives? The main focus of the LDS Church is to do good. I abhor the polygamy tenets but realize that otherwise, the bulk of LDS teachings focus on doing good to others. Does Satan really get people to do good to others? Question: Why did you feel so angry about Ed Decker's work -- which mirrors many of your claims? Also, has any followed any of the G.A.'s or prophets around to find out what they do day in and day out -- if they are secret Masons or whatever, can anyone trace a current LDS leader to such groups or organizations? You realize that is the LDS Church is "Satanic", then virtually all religions are -- since so many of other faiths have been caught doing weird, illegal things (like Catholics abusing children, Baptist tele-evangelists involved in scams, etc.) So then your claim or anyone else's claim to belonging to a "good" Christian church is suspect because they all may have dishonest and double-faced leaders. Mar. 12, 2001 I'm sure you have been asked many, many times but...do the very top people in the LDS church truly believe all of the tenets of their religion? I have read most of your books and cannot, for the life of me, believe anyone could honestly swallow this nonsense. Regards, Mar. 13, 2001 Subject: absurdity I want you to know that I find it apalling that people that call theirselves "christian" are so willing to put down other faiths. I have read some of the postings and had to stop out of the sheer frustration that I felt at the ignorance displayed. I think that if you are going to allow people to go on about a religion that the obviously know NOTHING about then they should also state their level of ignorance on the subject. I have been raised in a strong mormon family yet have been excommunicated because I was not living the commandments. However, I shudder to think that these people that wrote this crap disguise themselves as well meaning christians. The fact that mormons are not thought of as christian is the stupidist thing that I have EVER heard. What is a christian?? maybe you should ask some of these people that question. Just for your information it somebody that believes in Christ. The WHOLE church is founded upon heavenly father and his son jesus christ. Again, the only thing that I can imagine is that ignorance has blinded these people. Thank You Mar. 14, 2001 Subject: Thank you I just wanted to thank you for sending the information package to me. I received it in the mail yesterday. A strange coincidence occurred after I emailed you with my request. I had wanted a copy of The Book of Mormon to read without someone trying to convert me and oddly enough, there was one at a book sale at my local library last week. Now I can peruse the information you sent and refer to the book as well. I believe things happen for a reason. Some people think I'm nuts to attribute coincidences to divine intervention but how else can you explain things that happen that are beyond chance? Mar. 14, 2001 Dear Lighthouse Friends, It has been one year now since I became a real Christian a got out of the Mormon Church. I was born in the church a was a fifth or sixth generation member. Thank God all of my children got out too. My mother taught me to pray and read the Bible to us when we were little and so when I heard the lies later I knew that they did not stack up to the truth of the Bible. I was a year on the 5th of March since I had the born again experience of getting saved or receiving salvation. I never knew that kind of joy and all that I have experienced as a Christian since as a Mormon. I could have been one of the ones that went to Bishop Pace but I did not know that anyone would have believed me and I had been threatened with my life if I told the stories of my abuse. I have meet others with stories like mine which helped me to heal by finding out that I was not alone and that there were others that could verify the same stories. I belong to a new church now and know the joy of real praise and worship of Jesus Christ and fellowship with Christians that love me and not judge by how righteous they think that I am. The information that I got from you helped me to see that I was not the one with the problem that it was a wicked church that was the problem. I have shared what I have learned with others and am pleased to tell you that several of my friends have accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and gotten out of the Mormon church. I told my Doctor today about getting out and he had me stay and tell him what I found out. He said that he had not been happy or a believer for a long time but did not know what to do or how to define what was the matter. He had joined in 1967 and had even been a bishop. He called me a home for where to get information to verify some of the stories I told him in the office today and I gave him your website and two others to study. My mother had a saying that you can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time. The church cannot keep fooling people much longer. Thank you for all you do. You efforts helped me find the Truth, the Light, and the Lord. The transition was very hard---I wanted it to be true---especially about temple marriages since my beloved husband is dead. It was a hard thing to realize that a Masonic ritual cannot make a marriage be forever no matter how nice it sounded as an idea. The ritual that I got married after was horrible anyway but I could not admit it. God Bless you and keep up the good work it is bearing fruit. Mar. 15, 2001 Dear Tanners, ...You guys are my heroes. Your courage knows no bounds. Keep up the good work. You're having an impact like you'll never know. Mar. 15, 2001 Just want to thank you for all the material you sent me. I really appreciate it very much. I read quite a few pamphlets when I was on line the first time and I also read your court case situation.... The GOOD LORD is using you both for HIS GLORY, souls are being saved and the LDS (one of Satan's many devious systems to distort GOD'S TRUTH) does not like it.( Eph.6:12) Well may the GOOD LORD bless you both abundantly with HIS GRACE and WISDOM in this spiritual battle. When the LORD lays you both on my heart, I will pray for you both and your ministry for HIM. Your Brother in CHRIST, Mar. 16, 2001 What's up Tanner's?! How's everthing goin? hope good. Congrats on your win. You guys have an awesome web site, keep it up...Listen, I lived in Utah last year and got involved with the LDS and it was cool and all until I found out the whole truth. That was when I moved back home to NC. Anyway, I am probably gonna move back out there this summer (SLC). Let me know if you need anything ok. This Olympic thing will be interesting. I'm considering my trip back out there a mission as well as a permanent move. My girlfriend is still in it and won't leave, and probably will never leave. But, I'm not a quitter. I think that if she actually knew everything she would think differently. This is serious stuff. ... Thanks again, in his name, Mar. 18, 2001 Subject: Truth telling Hi, Sandra -- I always enjoy talking with you and appreciate your elegantly restrained attitude and noble style. You have great credibility with me as I'm sure you do with others. The following is an e-mail I just sent to an LDS friend (I'm also LDS, as you know). FEEL FREE TO USE THIS LETTER HOWEVER YOU WISH SO LONG AS YOU USE IT IN ITS ENTIRETY WITHOUT EDITING ANYTHING, and so long as you be sure to omit the names _____ and _____. My best regards to you and Jerald, _____ (And now, here's that letter) I just noticed this on the Tanners' site: In this statement by Jerald or Sandra, the part I've underscored is a disservice to truth "In Answering Mormon Scholars we demonstrate that time after time defenders of Mormonism who have written for F.A.R.M.S. have utterly failed to understand our arguments and have reached erroneous conclusions. We highly recommend this book to those who want to know our side of the debate." Because the truth is so important to me, it's important to state that it's my professional opinion, as I read both the Tanners' and FARMS' material, that often it is likely NOT the case that FARMS writers "fail to understand" the arguments. I don't "take sides" in this, and I would rather that FARMS be right than Tanners, because FARMS is supporting the organization that I think is doing more good than harm in the world (though I do acknowledge that this is genuinely debatable with good arguments on both sides), but service to truth requires me to say that FARMS writers often don't "fail to understand" the arguments. Rather, they more often use one or more of the following, for which reasons I find FARMS' arguments more often inferior to the Tanners' arguments::
I virtually NEVER see the Tanners do these things, whereas I often see the Tanners' opponents (not only FARMS) do these things. And I recognize these things because I have long training, at the highest university levels of world-class universities (as both student and professor), in recognizing these techniques. It is clear that FARMS writers may sometimes misunderstand a Tanner argument, but far more often FARMS writers appear to understand, then simply use arguments and methods that are not as legitimate. In my experience with other topics in major universities, corporations and legal firms (I have been paid as consultant to legal firms as well as corporations), I simply recognize the defects and techniques employed. I can only conclude that FARMS writers OFTEN DO WELL UNDERSTAND the Tanners' arguments, but don't like to accept the conclusions and implications and facts, so therefore work around them, which then the Tanners diplomatically refer to as "not understanding." No, the Tanners' opponents clearly, in most cases, thoroughly understand, similarly to how O.J. Simpson's attorneys of course understood the evidence against him. It was BECAUSE Simpson's attorneys understood the evidence and arguments, that they used the kinds of methods they did. And I believe it's ABUNDANTLY clear that it is BECAUSE the FARMS researchers understand the Tanners' points so well that they respond as they so often do. The problem for FARMS is that readers of sufficient intelligence, education, perspicacity and discernment also clearly understand what is going on and who is correct in facts and methods. But FARMS material is also disseminated to the rank and file who often are unsure in discerning superiority of argument, and whose faith in the LDS church is then strengthened by the FARMS material. It's not that I don't understand WHY the FARMS people proceed in this fashion. They do it because it's the best they can do, just as Cochran used the best he had to defend HIS client. George Bernard Shaw said it best when he opined that most people are about as honest as they can afford to be. In short, the FARMS approach may be winning in numbers, but the Tanners' material is certainly winning in quality of factual and logical accuracy. Mar. 18, 2001 Greetings to the Tanners, I have used your website several times, ordered books, and have received the messenger for several years ago. It all started back in about 1990 when our son decided to marry a jack mormon while we lived in the SLC area. We left the state shortly after that (hurray!), but even though raised a Christian our son converted to Mormonism a couple of years later. Actually, they were married originally in a Christian church in Murray, UT. Well to make a long story short, our son is now reattending his old church after rejecting LDS has a hollow spiritual experience. An answer to to prayer indeed! We are overjoyed, to say the least. He is going to leave the LDS church and I have your information on how to do that, which I will share with him. ...Keep up the good work you are doing and I am happy that the lawsuit did not go any further. Blessings, Mar. 19, 2001 I live in Hamilton, New Zealand, where the first Mormon temple in the Southern Hemisphere was built. I lecture on US history at the university. In 1998, a group of Mormon students charged me with harassment, under my university's silly rules, after I gave my lecture on the origins of Mormonism. They dropped the charges after the university's Vice-chancellor caved in to them by forcing me into a public debate with Mormon spokespersons. Actually, the debate went well for me! ...Good luck! Mar. 21, 2001 I just wanted to thank y'all for all your hard work and devotion. I was born and raised mormon in SLC. I married a Christian man (oh big no no hehe) and in trying to convert him to mormonism I read alot of books and material. He obtained the book mormonism shadow or reality from his pastor and i agreed to at least look at it. Well needless to say it was vital in my leaving mormonism. I have found the Lord and my life has completely turned around and I just wanted to thank you all. ...Thanks again. Mar. 21, 2001 Nothing earth-shaking, just wanted to relate today's 'excitement:' I was listening to one of our local Christian stations today, and a commercial came on. It was Donny Osmond, promoting a genealogical service called 'One Family,' as I recall. He gave an 800 number. The young man who answered said it was just an independent company, no affiliations. I said they advertised the nation's largest database, and asked which one that was, and he said he assumed it was the church's. Which church? I asked. LDS. But you're not affiliated with the church? No. No one from the Mormon church will call? No. But the giveaway was his reference to 'the' church before I mentioned Mormonism. The Christian station is checking into why they would air this. They may come back and say, 'but they're not affiliated with the Mormon church.' But isn't it a logical assumption? ...By the way, the more I read of you both the more grateful I am that He put two warriors like you in the fight. And the more I study Mormonism, the more surprised I am that people can be so gullible. (Lucky for my sister, her craving for iced tea was a constant thorn in her affiliation with LDS, and she got out after a few years.) God bless! Mar. 21, 2001 Hi im 14 years old and im LDS. i know for a fact that the mormon religon is true. I know that my testimonie is getting stronger every day. why do you bash us? why dont you look at our good things. i was taught through the church to dress modestly. now my friend thinks that im brainwashed. ok so if wearing longer shorts rather than wearing short shorts is being brain washed then some people are really sick. now please for a second i would like to have every person that writes say at least 1 good things about mormon. and oh ya we get baptized when were 8! Mar. 21, 2001 hi my name is _____ I was recently baptized (about 6 months ago), but i have reconsidered and I have eliminated all association with the Church. I guess after finding out all that i did, like the rascism part, plurality of Gods and polygamy, I could not in good conscience follow through. I was never told these principles during my discussions, it wasn't until afterward did they surface. I wonder, don't you think its wrong that the missionaries don't disclose this information. I have never felt completely misinformed as I did when I read these things and discovered these beliefs. Isn't there something that can be done about this, I mean these are things that people might want to know if they are considering joining the church. I was really upset after this whole thing. And I'm pretty sure others would be too. ...thanks Mar. 22, 2001 In the late 1980s, I lived in Salt Lake City and was at breakfast in a hotel across the street from the Salt Palace when a mother proceeded to throw her 6 or 7 children out of an upstairs window and then jumped herself. One of the children survived. The father was a disgraced Mormon and had killed himself prior to the murder-suicide {if I remember correctly}. The mother was distraught over the death of the father. Do you have any idea what I am talking about? I can get a more exact date if it would help. Thank you for your assistance. [Sandra's Note: See the Salt Lake Tribune, Dec. 18, 1978, 'David Family Deaths May Lead to More Child Abuse Reports' by Angelyn Nelson:
Mar. 22, 2001 Greetings, ... let me state your ministry in invaluable. Thank you for clear and usable information without the hype. Mar. 24, 2001 To whom it may concern: I found your article about Mormons lying about polygamy to be very offensive. I don't know if you are Mormon, but I am pretty sure you aren't otherwise you wouldn't write such unbelievable trash! The Mormons have never denied any part of polygamy. In fact they fulfilled a desire of the Lord and when His work was done, so was polygamy. Mormons have never denied practicing polygamy, all they do is teach that now it is wrong. It states in the Book of Mormon...that no man should commit polygamy UNLESS the Lord commands it. And he did command it of the Mormon people. And when his work was done, the Mormons followed his original word. In my opinion you people were probably part of the L.D.S church at one point in time and got excommunicated for participating in foul deeds so now you must spend all your free time maliciously slandering other peoples faiths and beliefs. If you don't agree with Mormonism that is fine, but it's pretty sad when a person can't look up things concerning their faith without finding vicious gossip. [Sandra's Note: Thanks for writing. You will find that Joseph Smith denied polygamy in the 'History of the Church', vol. 6, p. 411. He would have had at least 33 wives at the time of this denial. This is from official LDS literature. Also, two of Smith's wives, in an official LDS publication, told how they had to lie to Emma Smith about polygamy. Emily Dow Partridge testified that she and her sister were married to Joseph without Emma's consent:
The Historical Record was an LDS publication, done by LDS historian Andrew Jensen, in the 1880's. It is at the University of Utah library.] Mar. 24, 2001 It's 1.28 am and I have been browsing through your site. I'm an ex Mormon, I'm on the message board and also receive the Messenger by post. I want to thank you for sending it to me all the way over here in France. I am writing because tonight I came across the article regarding temple ordinances for Hitler. Thank you for bringing this to light. It made me sick to my stomach, but it is things like this that I need to read to remember WHY i left the Morg and WHY it is a cult. This organization has no respect or concern for anyone but themselves, this just proves it beyond a shadow of a doubt. Mar. 24, 2001 Dear Mr. and Mrs. Tanner, My sister has forwarded a number of your publications to me over the years and I admire and support your efforts to bring some reasonable understanding about the church. I to was raised a Mormon from pioneer stock. And I do appreciate my earlier life experiences due to the close and dear Mormon family and friends caring for me, and the wonderful family/church activities that sustained me growing up. However, I no longer have anything to do with the church but have never made the effort to have my name removed from the records. My sister and husband went through that gut wrenching process--a deliberate and humiliating experience the church orchestrates. I am writing because from my perspective, your publications seem to miss an important aspect of this whole mormon-church fiasco that has been going on. That is the tremendous change in political ideology that prevails all aspects of the church since about the 1960s. First, when I was attending school at Utah State University, the son of Ezar Taft Benson, came to the university as a representative of the John Birch Society. (Fall 1962) He was a full-blown 'Bircher' and was selling that philosophy on campus. From that time on and particularly after his father, who was an 'apostle' at the time, became president--. the church clearly assumed a political ideology that is so dogmatic and conservative politically -- that I believe the church made a radical change in direction and intent. ... I believe what is driving the church now are more issues with political mind control than ever before. The church is becoming so rich and so pervasive in our culture they are beginning to affect governmental policies. ... While I understand your position on faith god- Christian belief, the churches political impact bothers me much more. We can possess a personal belief and live with one another, however, if a religion has relentless impact and control on political institutions of government, then I am alarmed- and I believe its happening! ... You probably understand better than I why the church, especially this president, will not accept or acknowledge truth, such as the bombing a few years ago and more recently, the Mt.Meadows tragedy, his whole time and effort is only about 'damage control' and not responsibility. Actually I guess that's nothing new. Thank you. Sincerely, Mar. 25, 2001 Dear Tanners, I'm a Mormon who's spent a lot of time in the last year and 1/2 studying my religion. I've read a lot of your material, along w/ many other sources that have helped me understand that the reality of my religion is not what I have been taught my whole life. It has been difficult talking to other Mormons about these issues b/c any true questioning strikes at the very heart of a person's identity. I was recently in Las Vegas visiting an old college friend who is a Mormon. I was discussing some of the things that I had read. He asked me if anything I've read was written by Jerald or Sandra Tanner. I replied yes, that I'd purchased several dozen books from you, and told him that I'd even been to your store and met you. He told me that he served a mission in Utah, and while serving in one of the University of Utah wards, he was teaching someone who had some anti-mormon literature. He said that it was written by the Tanners - And that when he mentioned it to some members, the members (unnamed) said that Jerald had been a former member of the ward. My friend then told me that on several occasions by several members, he was told that Jerald was excommunicated from the Church on grounds of adultery. I asked my friend who told him this, names etc. He couldn't provide anything specific. I told him that accusations of immorality etc. were common even in the early days of the LDS church when people would disagree w/ Joseph Smiths Polygamy etc., and that character assassinations were popular then and now. However, I told him that I'd just come right out and ask you if there was any truth to this allegation. Of course, I realize that it's really none of my business, but I'm sure that at this point you two have "thick skin" and have answered just about every claim and accusation known to man. I'm sure that it's easier for most people to write someone off as a crank if they can pass judgement on their character etc. etc. I have spoken w/ very active defenders of the Mormon faith who won't even address anything written by Michael Quinn in light of his admission that he is of homosexual orientation. This bothers me - The whole ad hominem approach is as old as the hills. However, if this accusation is patently false (From what I can gather by what I've read on your website, You two were married young and perhaps even left the church before you were married) it would be helpful if you could explain the details of you leaving the church, or perhaps put me in touch w/ someone that you knew back then. I realize that it was a long time ago. I promise that if there is nothing to these allegations, that I will pass this information along to my friend, and will always defend your reputation if the subject even comes up again. If you don't wish to address this issue, I'd understand. Please don't be offended that I am so blunt in asking this question. With the my religion's insistence that all people who question must have an axe to grind, you can leave the church but can't leave it alone etc. etc., what people see as motivation carries a lot of weight. I'm not sure exactly where i stand on the issue. I know that everyone makes mistakes, I certainly have. I wouldn't necessarily want to account for every day and second of my 32 years of existence to enemies. In any case, I'm sure you understand where I'm coming from. I would very much like to be able to tell my friend that he can't hide behind pat allegations like the one he made re Jerald. That if he is to understand the truth, that he must search things out and learn for himself, judge what you folks have said on it's own merit instead of seeking to write you off w/ a rather common character assassination. _____ ______ [Sandra's Note: Absolute lies!!! Jerald asked for his membership to be terminated and had to press the issue to get the bishop to do it! He asked him to do it before we got married in June 1959, while he was still living on the west side of Salt Lake at his folks home, Cannon 7th ward. The bishop didn't follow through. We got married in Calif, lived there a year, moved back to SLC in June-July 1960. Moved in temporarily with his folks, found out his name was still on the rolls (from his younger sisters who were attending the ward). So Jerald sent a letter to the bishop. Then he finally was called in for an excommunication hearing due to his resignation. The charges were "alleged wrong doing on your part as follows: voluntary request for your name to be stricken from the records and teaching doctrines which are not in harmony with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints." Notice--there was never any charge of adultery. The bit about teaching doctrines not in harmony with the church was due to our rejecting the D&C and PGP. We still believed the BofM at the time. Photos of the bishop's letters are at the back of our book Mormonism—Shadow or Reality?] Mar. 26, 2001 Dear Mr. & Mrs. Tanner, First, I want to thank you for your efforts towards helping Mormons emerge from the maze. As a former Mormon, I can attest to the confusing world within this false religion. ... Thank you again, Mar. 26, 2001 Subject: Your So-Called Quest To Destroy The Church of Jesus Christ Jerald & Sandra Tanner - I have been a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints since April of 1982 (almost a full 20 years). Prior to this communication, I had a very enjoyable time scrutinizing some of the material you make available on your website. I have to give you credit - you sure do try hard to make a convincing argument. However, I'm not impressed at your attempts to 'nip at the heels of the Church and its' faithful followers'. While alot of what I read was 'sensational' in nature, it does nothing to change my mind about the validity of the Church's tenents and beliefs. Even though I have had problems of my own with the local leadership of my own ward, what I've viewed of your work so far has done nothing to discourage me to give up my membership in the Church and see things the same way that you see them. If you want my honest opinion about what you are doing and have done in the past with the Utah Lighthouse Ministry, in respect to exposing the inconsistencies (or what you perceive as such) of Mormonism and its' doctrines, please permit me to defend the faith. In this country, the United States Constitution endows every one of its' citizens with the right to religious freedom without fear of oppression from government. However, on the other side of the coin, every person also has the right to defend himself/herself from oppression by others, whether or not any such government connection exists. While I have been counseled in the past to not waste my time with people like you, I only do so - not out of rebellion to the counsel given, but out of a love for the truth and the furtherance of it. However, if you think for one moment that I could be duped to believe that your calling is from God - please - do yourself a favor Mr. and Mrs. Tanner - don't try to use your anti-mormon books and literature to distort my testimony. Even before I started the missionary discussions in 1982, I already had a testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and of the Church. I doubt very seriously if anything that you have or will ever publish will be of such tantamount importance as to do any damage to my faith in God or have trust and confidence in His living oracles. I only write you this e-mail, to inform you that after years of being inactive, your so-called negative exposure of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, has been effective enough to resurrect my own personal quest to know the truth and to place frauds like you into the proper light where they can be seen. But, of course, if you're not too busy and must insist in defending your own positions and viewpoints of the many facets of Mormonism, I would be more than happy to set you straight as to the many evidences which point to the truth behind The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I most certainly welcome the challenge. Mar. 26, 2001 Subject: Seer Stone Qs Is the picture of a stone resting between the pages of an open book on your web site the stone used by Joseph Smith? If so, how is it verified? Did Joseph Smith ever state he used the seer stone to translate the BOM after the original 116 pages were lost? Thank you in advance. P.S. I commend you for the work you are doing. [Sandra's Note: Joseph Smith evidently owned several stones. The one pictured in the Messenger is not the one he used to 'translate' the Book of Mormon. The one used for the Book of Mormon was a sort of brown stone. See Early Mormonism and the Magic World View, by D. Michael Quinn, 1998 ed., pp.172-174 and pp. 242-247.] Mar. 27, 2001 Subject: could have been Dear Tanners, I thank God for your ministry. He has truly worked in and through you to reach those who have been blinded. I feel very blessed to have been raised in a Christian home with parents, aunts and uncles, cousins, and grandparents who know the Lord. I realize very well how a small decision in our lives can make a tremendous impact on our future and the future of our decedents. In the mid to late1920's, my grandfather and one of his brothers left Missouri as young teens on their own to go west for work and adventure. They made it as far as Colorado and Wyoming. After working on a ranch for some time, my grandfather decided to return to his southern Missouri home. His brother, stayed. My grandfather came to know Christ as his savior and led his family in the way of the truth. His brother, however, who stayed in Mormondom, never returned. He instead raised his family in Wyoming where today all that we know of are involved in Mormonism. Our family has been contacted only for references of births, deaths, residence--genealogical research. I am sure that somewhere I am being prayed for that I might come to the LDS teachings. I write all of this to say that I have been placed in many situations over the past 10-12 years through my work in Christian retailing, to witness and share God's word and love to Mormons--especially Mormon missionaries. I feel this is my obligation and my privilege to share the grace of God. If it weren't for His grace---I could have been a Mormon! May God Bless You Mar. 27, 2001 my name is _____, i have questions and commits first im a little confused, do you think that joseph smith single handedly wrote the book of mormon from other stuff he read and his own imagination planning to do this from the age of around 12? and therefore every prophet and very other general authority after him as been part of this great conspiricy, a this he did for what reason? and he and all these other people where so devoted to this lie that they allowed their children, wifes, brothers, and other loved ones to suffer even unto death for this lie? this must truely be the largest fruad in the history of all the world with tens of thousands in on it through out time. WOW!! commit on the book of mormon, of coarse it has likeness to the the bible, it was writen by the prophets of god with his inspiration as was the bible, using that against the book of mormon would be like saying the new testiment was fake because it as likeness to the old. i accidentally came across your site while looking for church articles, i have never understood how people who have read the book of mormon, are faithful to our lord and have prayed asking for the lords guidance into truely knowing the answers can still have these beliefs.... thank you your friend in heart soul, Mar. 28, 2001 I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and I just don't understand how you can say things like that. How can you say that your absolutely sure that this church is not the real one? You said that praying is not a way to find out, so what is? Just all the evidence you have found about it. And about the "changes" in the Book of Mormon, the ones that I have found have only been little things that don't change the gospel principles that are in it. They don't even matter, your just trying to make it look bad for your benefit. I have a strong testimony in the church, but I want to understand why you think the things you do, I don't understand. And what about the Bible, if the Book of Mormon is so bad why doesn't anyone pick on the Bible? There are so many things in there that contradict each other, but it seems like no one even cares about that, they only care about the Mormon religion and the Book of Mormon, Why is that? ... Thanks Mar. 29, 2001 Subject: Thank you Sandra In early 1986, I was introduced to your writings through Christian Awareness Fellowship, which at that time was under the leadership of Jack Gracie of Tucson, Arizona. As he and your works helped me to find some life long answers about Mormonism, I found a new spiritual life to say the least. I too have a rich Pioneer Mormon History as so do you. My Great Grand Father was Jesse N. Smith (first cousin to Joseph) and in the early 1840's, your Great Grand Father Brigham Young directed Jesse to take and settle the little Colorado River Valley (near Winslow) and then eventually down into Snow Flake where they are currently building the new Temple. You can imagine some of the heartache and politics that I have had to endure, in part to my heritage. I will not denounce my heritage being that of strong pioneer settlers (of that I am proud), however I spiritually out grew the confusing "MAZE" that I had inherited by birth. Mar. 29, 2001 first I would like to thank you for your information regarding the resignation of records. I have been wanting to have my name taken off of the records for some time and with my mother being a very active mormon I didn't feel that I could ask her for any help. she at one time thought that my religious beliefs were a fad like when I got my bellybutton pierced. she now knows that I have a true relationship with God and she has noticed a big difference in my life. I think that she is just scared to change her life over to the one true God. please keep her in your prayers. my question is if in the D&C 132 it says that there is to be a "New and Everlasting covenant" then goes on to say that "if ye abide not that covenant then ye are dammed." what I don't understand is as far as I know everlasting means just that! when did this everlasting covenant end? furthermore why does the mormon religion condemn the polygamists in the utah area? now I personally don't believe that God would want me to share my husband with anyone but I feel that they are very hypocritical in many ways but with these people who are believing in the original teachings of the mormon church according to revelations of their living prophet the founder of their multimillion dollar deception. I pray that they may all see the light. may god have mercy on their souls. [Sandra's Note: The Mormons try to separate 'everlasting covenant' of marriage and 'plural marriage.' But Sec. 132 of the Doctrine and Covenants clearly makes them the same thing. The early LDS leaders understood that they were the same. Brigham Young taught:
Also read Joseph F. Smith's comments on this in the Journal of Discourses, vol.20, pp.28-31. This is the dilemma faced by the current LDS leaders. How are they to uphold Brigham Young and the other early leaders as prophets yet not endorse their doctrinal statements?] Mar. 29, 2001 Dear Tanners. Thank you ...I want to become a expert on reaching mormons and you have done so much to help me. I gather information on the web. Someone called you mean spirited. That's so far from the truth its funny. You folks have shown me a good approach to reaching them and its a very loving way to convince them of the truth. Your doing a terrific job for the Lord. |
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